Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Discuss the multiple items and magic consuming techniques of Yharnam

Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby Astrichthyes » Sat Jul 18, 2015 2:58 pm

bearded1 wrote:Thanks. I just farmed a 31 and 32% blunt from ujxcn3hy. One has hp drain -9 but I'm sticking with it until I find another 32%.
I now do nearly 3500 damage on the watchers with a charged r2 + r2. Kirkhammer is +835. It's sick. Will try for a triangle next.

To hit 1000ar with the Kirk, you'll need at least 429ar without gems. That's some pretty hefty stat investment if my calcs are correct. LHB and the wheel are probably easier to hit that mark with
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby Astrichthyes » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:49 am

Updated the OP. I now have all 6 rite-specific dungeons made.
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby bearded1 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:36 am

In case you were wondering I think the RC Isz dungeon is NOT more likely to drop adept gems. The only gems other than tempering I've received have been elemental or arcane.
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby bearded1 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:41 am

In case you were wondering I do not think the RC Isz dungeons work the same way as ihyll. All the gems I've relieved from watchers other than tempering have been elemental. Maybe FC? Haven't tried one yet.
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby Astrichthyes » Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:18 am

bearded1 wrote:In case you were wondering I think the RC Isz dungeon is NOT more likely to drop adept gems. The only gems other than tempering I've received have been elemental or arcane.

then it seems the rules of rite-dependence change in izs. Blunt gems were very rare in 5pwujscd, so i imagine they still are with the only the rite they are tied to (5% or less, if my hunch is correct). i was extremely lucky to get my triangular 32.6% blunt with increased stamina cost as quickly as i did because i still haven't gotten one in ihyll and the drop rate there is much higher. Izs frequently drops elemental gems and tempering, but rarely anything else. You may not get that triangular blunt gem for some time. If you want to get that gem with fair certainty, but don't mind farming the fatties 100 times+, go 5pwu. I still don't know which rite blunts are tied to in izs, but i have all 3 dungeons made and i've been testing them as much as possible to get their drop lists.

On a side note, i've found a reliable way to get some pretty good radial Nourishing gems. I guess i'm a bit slow on the times, as this info was released 2 months ago, but didn't reach my eyes until last night. In pwmf22gu (i think that's the glyph; the one from the top-tier farming guide on reddit), there's a gargoyle on layer 2 in the first room and it's completely alone. It's vulnerable to church weapons and arcane damage, so you can easily kill it and stock up on gems that actually beat out those of Rom. The best i've gotten is +19.3%, +5.4% ATK up vs open foes, -10.1% ATK vs Kin. Takes about 20 seconds to farm him per run and he drops either a Nourishing gem, a blood stone twin shard, or blood stone chunk almost every time with max discovery (430 on my arcane build with all 3 eye runes). These gems will outperform even the best Nourishing gem from the watchers if the secondary effect is another % effect. I prefer finestrike or striking secondary effects, but fool's and poorman's aren't bad ones.
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby bearded1 » Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:35 pm

In case you were wondering:

All stats at 50. Damage against Central Yharnam villagers.

Attack Kirkhammer (32.6% blunt x 3) Ludwig's (27.2% phys x 3)
r1, r1, r1 950, 950, 950 (2850) 873, 873, 926 (2672)
roll r1 792 781
r2 1193 1092
chrg r2 + r2 2195, 1336 (3531) 1922, 1383 (3285)
dash r2 1001 996
leap r2 1145 1048
l2, l2, l2 1097, 1001, 1384 (3482) 1005, 1005, 1031 (3041)

I OHKO a lot of people pvp at the moment.
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby Astrichthyes » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:57 pm

bearded1 wrote:All stats at 50.
I OHKO a lot of people pvp at the moment.

It's no wonder why :lol: Blunt Kirk is insane too. That 2h charged r2 almost OHKO's in sl100 pvp with simple tempering gems.
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby bearded1 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:39 am

By the way where do you do most of your pvp? I feel I might be too high a level (200-something). I do almost all my pvp in mergo's loft middle. What dungeons could I get some run in do you think?
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby Astrichthyes » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:04 am

bearded1 wrote:By the way where do you do most of your pvp? I feel I might be too high a level (200-something). I do almost all my pvp in mergo's loft middle. What dungeons could I get some run in do you think?

Most of my PvP is arranged with friends. The majority of random fights are Evelyn spammers, lead elixir abusers, and BoM r1 mashers.
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby bearded1 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:22 am

I have found the same thing. I still enjoy it but I don't know anyone else who plays to organize pvp. Not a lot of people playing in New Zealand.
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby bearded1 » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:23 am

Kirkhammer is 210+902 blunt damage at the moment!
One more 32.6% to go.
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby Astrichthyes » Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:27 pm

bearded1 wrote:I have found the same thing. I still enjoy it but I don't know anyone else who plays to organize pvp. Not a lot of people playing in New Zealand.

If you want to start a fight club, I'm game. I know some players who would like to have fully coordinated matches. Likely SL range would be 100-120 and rules would be to play fairly and honorably. Excessive healing and spamming gunshots would be frowned upon, but i think we can get a good club going
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby Astrichthyes » Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:21 pm

Updated the OP. I found a Cold gem, so the only gems the boss version of the MW's hasn't dropped are Odd, Bloodtinge, Warm, and Pulsing.
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby Astrichthyes » Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:22 am

A much prettier version of the OP can be found here:

http://fextralife.com/the-cursed-mercil ... drop-list/
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby Tsmp » Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:58 am

Astrichthyes wrote:Updated the OP. I found a Cold gem, so the only gems the boss version of the MW's hasn't dropped are Odd, Bloodtinge, Warm, and Pulsing.

Bloodtinge and Warm are exclusive to circle gems, barring the two story droplets and occasional off-shapes that were supposed to be circles. Pulsing I've only ever seen as circle and waning, so it's highly unlikely to drop from Watchers. I don't recall ever seeing any boss drop an Odd gem.
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Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby Astrichthyes » Thu Oct 22, 2015 3:31 am

Tsmp wrote:Bloodtinge and Warm are exclusive to circle gems, barring the two story droplets and occasional off-shapes that were supposed to be circles. Pulsing I've only ever seen as circle and waning, so it's highly unlikely to drop from Watchers. I don't recall ever seeing any boss drop an Odd gem.

The shotgun fatty can drop warm/bt gems in certain glyphs, but other than that, the only other sources for BT are specific ritekeepers in specific dungeons, Bloodlickers, and BSB AFAIK. Pulsing gems are a rare drop from a number of enemies and come in all shapes. I just got a radial pulsing gem from a Bone Ash Hunter NPC in Lower Loran the other day. If the fatties did drop pulsing, it'd be rare enough that no one has found/reported it. Since Dan and I have well over 1000 trials together against the trio by now, it's almost impossible that any of the gems that have been ruled out are possible drops. Odd effects are mainly secondary effects. I've never seen it as a primary effect except as loot. I do remember hearing something a while back that a gem with 2 odd bolt effects adding to over 90 bolt AR was obtained from a sage. If this is true, i wouldn't doubt it was without patches that were intended to stop such anomalies from happening. I can just imagine gems from the sages looking like +28% charged attacks, +12.6% charged attacks under such conditions (which would multiply to 44% charged attacks). We're working on the final touches for our gem guide, which will not include the sage's drop list, but some of their gems; the drop list will be separate. Keep an eye out for our stuff.

By the way, we obtained a radial warm gem from a sage in Pthumeru, so I wouldn't doubt Bloodtinge is a possibility as well.
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Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby Tsmp » Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:03 am

My apologies, it seems I was mistaken. :oops:

Thank you for the information. Radial pulsing from the Bone Ash Hunters? Any idea what drops triangle pulsings? Would it be the Cainhurst Hunters?

A radial Warm gem. That's absolutely bizarre. I can't help but wonder what use the devs thought scaling gems would have that regular %up gems don't already cover, or even odd gems.

On that note, do you want to test something I can't? I imagine you have a bunch of high-grade Cold gems, and my new job takes up more freetime than I used to have. Do Cold gems do anything weird to Tonitrus' self-buff on a high Arcane build? Shouldn't take more than a few minutes.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby Astrichthyes » Fri Oct 23, 2015 12:15 am

Tsmp wrote:My apologies, it seems I was mistaken. :oops:

Thank you for the information. Radial pulsing from the Bone Ash Hunters? Any idea what drops triangle pulsings? Would it be the Cainhurst Hunters?

A radial Warm gem. That's absolutely bizarre. I can't help but wonder what use the devs thought scaling gems would have that regular %up gems don't already cover, or even odd gems.

On that note, do you want to test something I can't? I imagine you have a bunch of high-grade Cold gems, and my new job takes up more freetime than I used to have. Do Cold gems do anything weird to Tonitrus' self-buff on a high Arcane build? Shouldn't take more than a few minutes.

No need for apologies. The Cainhurst hunters primarily drop triangular radiant gems. I haven't seen any other gem type from them. Perhaps the LHB/RoseKirk Hunters drop them. They're a bit on the rare side, with most NPC's being the Bone Ash Hunter, the Cainhurst Hunter, and the Reapeater-Kirk Hunter, but I think they are your best bet. If not them, then you can try to farm triangular pulsing gems from the Isz Scurrying Beasts. They run up to +4 or +5 hp recovery and can be save-scum-farmed as a group if you find the right glyph.

I think the dev's thought scaling gems would be as good or better than percent gems, but they didn't do their math correctly. Even if percent gems added together instead of multiplying, they would be worse than percent equivalents. I don't believe the scaling gems do anything weird with Toni, but i'll do some quick testing to make sure. I'll edit this post or reply to any new response on here with my findings

Here's the testing with one cold gem (+25.3) and one nourishing gem (+15%) vs one nourishing gem (15%) vs Yharnam axeman:

Toni+10 with 15% nourishing
AR: 248P +130B
no buff charged r2: 569
buffed charged r2: 879

Toni+10 with 15% nourishing and 25.3 cold
AR: 248P + 149B
no buff charged r2: 601
buffed charged r2: 943

Toni+10 with 15% nourishing and 25.3% bolt
AR: 248P + 163B
no buff charged r2: 624
buffed charged r2: 1013

The only way a scaling gem can match a percent gem is on a weapon with 0 scaling at 99 in the scaling stat for that gem. Percent gems multiply and scaling gems add, making percent gems vastly superior
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Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby Tsmp » Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:35 am

Astrichthyes wrote:No need for apologies. The Cainhurst hunters primarily drop triangular radiant gems. I haven't seen any other gem type from them. Perhaps the LHB/RoseKirk Hunters drop them. They're a bit on the rare side, with most NPC's being the Bone Ash Hunter, the Cainhurst Hunter, and the Reapeater-Kirk Hunter, but I think they are your best bet. If not them, then you can try to farm triangular pulsing gems from the Isz Scurrying Beasts. They run up to +4 or +5 hp recovery and can be save-scum-farmed as a group if you find the right glyph.

I think the dev's thought scaling gems would be as good or better than percent gems, but they didn't do their math correctly. Even if percent gems added together instead of multiplying, they would be worse than percent equivalents. I don't believe the scaling gems do anything weird with Toni, but i'll do some quick testing to make sure. I'll edit this post or reply to any new response on here with my findings

Here's the testing with one cold gem (+25.3) and one nourishing gem (+15%) vs one nourishing gem (15%) vs Yharnam axeman:

Toni+10 with 15% nourishing
AR: 248P +130B
no buff charged r2: 569
buffed charged r2: 879

Toni+10 with 15% nourishing and 25.3 cold
AR: 248P + 149B
no buff charged r2: 601
buffed charged r2: 943

Toni+10 with 15% nourishing and 25.3% bolt
AR: 248P + 163B
no buff charged r2: 624
buffed charged r2: 1013

The only way a scaling gem can match a percent gem is on a weapon with 0 scaling at 99 in the scaling stat for that gem. Percent gems multiply and scaling gems add, making percent gems vastly superior


Odd, I've only ever gotten Tempering gems from the Cainhurst guys, and I've never found a Pulsing gem from a Scurrying. Mostly, I just get Temperings from them, too. Come to think of it, if my storage box is any indication then only about 1% of the gems I find are anything other than Tempering, Fire, or Bolt. I must have the weirdest luck.

I was kind of hoping the additive scaling boost from Cold would have some unintended synergy with the Tonitrus' scaling multiplier from the buff, but I guess that was a bit far-fetched. Thanks for testing it for me.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Cursed Merciless Watchers Boss Gem Drops and Glyphs

Postby Astrichthyes » Fri Oct 23, 2015 5:18 pm

i farmed a pthum dungeon a few weeks ago where the only gem the Cainhurst hunter dropped was triangular radiant. I kid you not. It's entirely possible that it was a glyph-isolated incident.

What i've seen is that the majority of the gems you get are tempering and a few others. Most of the others are rare, but i think that drop rates for the types of gems you find depends a bit on your level of insight. I don't know why, but sometimes, if i have 99 insight, all i find is tempering, but as soon as i drop to 0, i'll find all kinds of gems. At other times, i'll have 0 insight and only find tempering gems. As soon as i go back up in insight, i start seeing new stuff. I'm not sure if it's the change in insight that is causing this, but it's awfully coincidental for such changes to happen EVERY time. It's also possible that the location you're farming in has different effects for insight, such that pthum may be opposite to isz or glyph A may be opposite to glyph B.
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Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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