Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Weapons!*

General discussion of all things Bloodborne

Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *spoilers, obviously*

Postby Tsmp » Sat Oct 24, 2015 9:51 pm

I wouldn't mind being able to kill invaders/hosts in dungeons for good gems. You can already co-op in dungeons for gems.
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *spoilers, obviously*

Postby Mephistophelea » Sun Oct 25, 2015 6:00 pm

Info round up with few new tidbits on PS Website The Old Hunters Page
PS Website wrote:Uncover Yharnam’s Dark Past
Experience the nightmare of the hunters who once guarded Byrgenwerth’s deepest, darkest secrets and uncover the mystery behind Yharnam’s sinister past and in The Old Hunters expansion DLC for Bloodborne™. Journey to a world where hunters from the past are trapped forever, find multiple new outfits and weapons to add to your hunter arsenal, and explore brand new stages full of dangers, rewards, and deadly beasts to hunt.

New World
The Hunters' Nightmare
A world drenched in blood, lit by a possessed moon. Its light shows familiar buildings half swallowed by sludge, leaning over, distorted. It is here that hunters of old, riddled by nightmares, endlessly pursue beasts.

New Area
Astral Clock Tower
A massive, tall gothic structure towers upward towards the moonlit sky, wind blowing through its ornate corridors, steeped in mystery.

New Hunters
Encounter a variety of new hunters allies, including some that hail from the far East. What horrors have they seen, trapped in this eternal nightmare?

New Enemies
Trapped inside this nightmare world, some hunters lost their minds to the hunt. No longer able to tell beast from friend, they roam the nightmare aimlessly and kill anything that crosses their path. Beware, for they continue to wield their deadly Hunter weapons.

Horrific Beast
Ludwig
The holier the man, the more horrific the beast he becomes - this case is no different, where a once famed hero has turned. But now, it has forgotten the guiding light, and crawls the blood-drenched depths as something that can barely be called even a beast anymore.

New Weapon
Simon's Bowblade
One among the hunters of old did not like firearms. This special transforming bow was custom built just for him. But there is a saying. Facing a beast with only a bow is...

New Magic
Blacksky Eye
Firing the concentrated light of a small comet from the eyes: this unseen art is a secret ritual of the church. If you look close enough, you may find that the hunter’s nightmare holds many such forgotten secrets.
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *spoilers, obviously*

Postby Tsmp » Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:00 pm

Mephistophelea wrote:Info round up with few new tidbits on PS Website The Old Hunters Page
PS Website wrote:Uncover Yharnam’s Dark Past
Experience the nightmare of the hunters who once guarded Byrgenwerth’s deepest, darkest secrets and uncover the mystery behind Yharnam’s sinister past and in The Old Hunters expansion DLC for Bloodborne™. Journey to a world where hunters from the past are trapped forever, find multiple new outfits and weapons to add to your hunter arsenal, and explore brand new stages full of dangers, rewards, and deadly beasts to hunt.

New World
The Hunters' Nightmare
A world drenched in blood, lit by a possessed moon. Its light shows familiar buildings half swallowed by sludge, leaning over, distorted. It is here that hunters of old, riddled by nightmares, endlessly pursue beasts.

New Area
Astral Clock Tower
A massive, tall gothic structure towers upward towards the moonlit sky, wind blowing through its ornate corridors, steeped in mystery.

New Hunters
Encounter a variety of new hunters allies, including some that hail from the far East. What horrors have they seen, trapped in this eternal nightmare?

New Enemies
Trapped inside this nightmare world, some hunters lost their minds to the hunt. No longer able to tell beast from friend, they roam the nightmare aimlessly and kill anything that crosses their path. Beware, for they continue to wield their deadly Hunter weapons.

Horrific Beast
Ludwig
The holier the man, the more horrific the beast he becomes - this case is no different, where a once famed hero has turned. But now, it has forgotten the guiding light, and crawls the blood-drenched depths as something that can barely be called even a beast anymore.

New Weapon
Simon's Bowblade
One among the hunters of old did not like firearms. This special transforming bow was custom built just for him. But there is a saying. Facing a beast with only a bow is...

New Magic
Blacksky Eye
Firing the concentrated light of a small comet from the eyes: this unseen art is a secret ritual of the church. If you look close enough, you may find that the hunter’s nightmare holds many such forgotten secrets.


"If you look close enough, you may find that the hunter’s nightmare holds many such forgotten secrets."

Now there's an interesting line. Give me a minute to figure out how I'm going to fit this into the OP.

Edit: I regret not making a second, back up post. Here's the extra links I chopped out.

More demo footage
Even more demo footage
There's a lot of this stuff, isn't there?
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *spoilers, obviously*

Postby Astrichthyes » Mon Oct 26, 2015 1:21 am

I am really hoping for at least one more bolt spell and a fire spell. And reduced spell costs/increased effectiveness. As they are, spells just don't seem to do enough damage to justify the bullet cost or the risk in use. My curiosity of the Beast Cleaver has now surpassed that which I had for the "pizza cutter". It looks like it could have a wide variation in speed for its moveset
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *spoilers, obviously*

Postby Tsmp » Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:16 am

Astrichthyes wrote:I am really hoping for at least one more bolt spell and a fire spell. And reduced spell costs/increased effectiveness. As they are, spells just don't seem to do enough damage to justify the bullet cost or the risk in use. My curiosity of the Beast Cleaver has now surpassed that which I had for the "pizza cutter". It looks like it could have a wide variation in speed for its moveset

Arcane tools do plenty of damage if you're at 99 arcane. I've got a character who can hit Ebrietas for 3,000+ damage with A Call Beyond, and she's not exactly weak to it. Amygdala will take more like 4,000+ per cast. You need to actually be a squishy wizard in this game if you want your spells to blow shit up.

The thing about arcane tools is they don't softcap and continue to get good returns all the way, so if you want to use them most effectively you need to max that stat or get really close to it. 50 arcane is for elemental weapons instead, 25 is for Tonitrus and Wheel, and 15 is for buff tools.
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *spoilers, obviously*

Postby Astrichthyes » Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:37 am

Is it true that the tools don't softcap? If so, then that's pretty awesome. It's just a shame that most of them are so predictable in pvp. I completely understand how powerful they are in PvE, as I can destroy most bosses quite easily by exploiting weaknesses, but damage is only as good as your ability to deal it. If you can't hit an opponent because your spell is greatly telegraphed and you run out of bullets because your spells are so easy to dodge and cost a lot per use, then having 99a would do absolutely nothing to help you. I've never been a fan of using homing spells, but the only decent spell that doesn't cost you your firstborn child is ExGloves.

Let's say you run 99arc in pvp. You're very fragile due to stat sacrifice and depend on your bullets for spells. You burn a good 1/3rd of your bullet count on Tiny Tonitrus to counter your opponent's incoming attack. It hits, but your opponent heals, negating your attack entirely while you are left with a large hole in your bullet stores. Then you use ExGloves and try to attack while they pursue your opponent. They qs spam away from you and the skulls disappear. You use A Call Beyond and your opponent dodges through the blast for a free hit. You're probably down to your last few bullets and your opponent has full hp. You heal when you get the chance and, to conserve your bullets, you focus on melee. Then you try to surprise your opponent during their mad dash at you with Augur. Your opponent keeps pace, running to your side, and charges an attack with their fast weapon. Before you've fully recovered from Augur and dodge, you get backstabbed. You Died.

This scenario is not completely exaggerated, mind you. It is entirely possible, especially the part with the heal after TT. Granted, they will add at least 1 more spell, which hopefully costs 1 bullet and deals decent damage. But as it is, the cost is high for the actual damage.

Why go 99a when 50bt does the same thing at a low bullet cost AND has higher damage in pvp AND has instantaneous use and no cool-down AND can be buffed AND can deal high amounts of damage while parrying? The incentive for spells just isn't there, even if they do have fantastic scaling that does not cap. If the spells were a little more reliable/unpredictable, the bullet cost would be justified. If the cost were lower, the unreliability/predictability would be justified. But unreliability and relatively low damage per bullet feels wrong compared to high reliability and high damage per bullet from Bloodtinge, which is inherently wrong in terms of basic game balancing. Rather, the DPB should be roughly equal, if not favoring spells because of the higher risk and lower reliability.
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *spoilers, obviously*

Postby Tsmp » Fri Oct 30, 2015 10:04 am

Someone on 4chan did a surprising amount of testing on it, and it turns out ACB and TT softcap at 70, but a few like AoE continue up to 99. Unfortunately, I forgot to save the link to their work.

Arcane tools are definitely harder to use in PvP, but on the plus side arc builds also have a wider variety of weapons and Rosmarinus/Flamesprayer to fall back on whereas bloodtinge builds only have Chikage and guns that all fire in exactly the same way. You can knock someone down with Beast Roar, follow up with a dash attack or Glove, follow the gloves with Rosm spray, R1s, start charging ACB, or use Augur (depending on how you think they'll react). TT after Glove is actually pretty nasty if you line it up right. The key to it all is mixups, knowing what kinds of dodges the tools can punish, remembering you have a weapon and undodgeable AoE blanket, and taking advantage of the fact that tools/sprayers are an unparriable source of damage. Keep in mind that a few tools even have hyperarmor and can trade with bullets, mainly the later end of Augur and most of ACB's animation.

Bullet costs can be lessened a bit by using Formless runes, Oedon Writhe, and blood bullets where possible. It's possible to have effectively infinite bullets and restore the equivalent of 7 per visceral if you combine blood bullets, Oedon Writhe, and Blood Rapture, or just go full cheese and load your weapon+gun up with Pulsing gems for 20hp/2sec regen.

Harder to use in PvP for sure, but significantly greater attack variety and the ability to threaten damage without fear of being parried is very nice. Tools like Beast Roar and Executioner's Glove are just really good, too.
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *spoilers, obviously*

Postby Mephistophelea » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:03 pm

This just came up from Paris Games Week,definitely check that out.
Bloodborne: The Old Hunters - 45 Minutes of Gameplay
Saw-Mill

Trick weapon developed by the Powder Kegs, heretics of the workshop, much appreciated by the old Valtr, nicknamed the devourer of monsters.

It can be used as a mace, but its interesting side lies in its mechanical circular blades, rotating discs with toothed edges perfectly sharpened to shred the flesh of monsters.
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *spoilers, obviously*

Postby Tsmp » Mon Nov 02, 2015 2:02 am

Mephistophelea wrote:This just came up from Paris Games Week,definitely check that out.
Bloodborne: The Old Hunters - 45 Minutes of Gameplay
Saw-Mill

Trick weapon developed by the Powder Kegs, heretics of the workshop, much appreciated by the old Valtr, nicknamed the devourer of monsters.

It can be used as a mace, but its interesting side lies in its mechanical circular blades, rotating discs with toothed edges perfectly sharpened to shred the flesh of monsters.

Just saw that on 4chan, the stat requirements are 16 str and 12 skl, and it has A str, E skill, and B arc scaling at +8. Pure physical weapon too, so it's going to be fun with beast blood pellets.
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
Tsmp
 
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Covenant/Oath!*

Postby Tsmp » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:44 pm

The famitsu scan brings good tidings, and other, smarter people are translating it. In addition to confirming the Moonlight Greatsword (or "Holy Moonlight Sword", if the translation is accurate), a new Oath is also confirmed:

Image

Hey look at that, it's a legitimate co-op faction. Even has NPC summons.
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
Tsmp
 
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Covenant/Oath!*

Postby Astrichthyes » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:49 pm

Famitsu had a scan of a supposedly "new" weapon. It looked like MLGS to most players, but I think it's potentially something else entirely because of the way it's being held.

They may be adding a scaling arcane buff that works much like Light Weapon from DeS and makes weapons look crystalline. Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to have a scaling weapon buff and would rather have them be purely aesthetic, but we may be looking at a real game-changer if it really is a buff.

But, if it truly is a new weapon, then it will probably be little more than a reskin of LHB with a few altered moves. I just wanted to add that here since I haven't seen it mentioned.

EDIT: FORGET EVERYTHING I SAID ABOVE.

http://fextralife.com/forums/t48375/new ... d-hunters/
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Covenant/Oath!*

Postby Tsmp » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:17 pm

Astrichthyes wrote:Famitsu had a scan of a supposedly "new" weapon. It looked like MLGS to most players, but I think it's potentially something else entirely because of the way it's being held.

They may be adding a scaling arcane buff that works much like Light Weapon from DeS and makes weapons look crystalline. Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to have a scaling weapon buff and would rather have them be purely aesthetic, but we may be looking at a real game-changer if it really is a buff.

But, if it truly is a new weapon, then it will probably be little more than a reskin of LHB with a few altered moves. I just wanted to add that here since I haven't seen it mentioned.

EDIT: FORGET EVERYTHING I SAID ABOVE.

http://fextralife.com/forums/t48375/new ... d-hunters/

Skepticism is healthy. For instance, I refuse to expect anything about the new beast mode beyond what was shown in the trailer.

Adding that link to the first post, brb.

Edit: reworded original post to be less biased.
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Covenant/Oath!*

Postby Astrichthyes » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:04 am

The caestus is named Galasha's Fist.

The new molotov acts somewhat like a grenade. When used, you throw it to the ground next to you, where it sticks and detonates after a short period of time.
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Covenant/Oath!*

Postby Tsmp » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:57 am

Astrichthyes wrote:The caestus is named Galasha's Fist.

The new molotov acts somewhat like a grenade. When used, you throw it to the ground next to you, where it sticks and detonates after a short period of time.


Do you mean you drop it like a rope molotov, or chuck it like a normal molotov? Do you know if there was any video footage of it, or if this was said in one of the interviews?
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
Tsmp
 
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Covenant/Oath!*

Postby Astrichthyes » Fri Nov 06, 2015 5:13 pm

I saw the video here:

http://fextralife.com/forums/t48341/45- ... bc1ab879ff

As you can see in the video, the molotov is literally thrown at the ground directly below your right hand and next to your right foot. It flashes a few times before detonating. I actually think this item may be used to create combo's if properly used in pvp.

Galasha's Fist is the official name of the caestus. They have a full description and picture of it here:

http://bloodborne.wiki.fextralife.com/Galasha%27s+Fist
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Covenant/Oath!*

Postby Tsmp » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:13 pm

Ah, the french video. It's time to finish watching that one. I'm still miffed that there's no footage of the Blacksky Eye item outside the trailer, but we only have less than three weeks anyways.

fextralife wrote:This is an unofficial name pending translation, from the Japanese name ガラシャの拳.

"Unofficial Translation of description:


I do trust their ability to translate stuff, and the translations are all very consistent. The problem is this isn't the official translation, and as another thread on fextra shows, a direct translation and the official translations may vary wildly. As such, I can only really say "name/description translated from Japanese".

Thank you though, the sticky grenade item is now edited in. You wouldn't happen to know what its name would be in english?
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
Tsmp
 
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Covenant/Oath!*

Postby Astrichthyes » Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:02 pm

Tsmp wrote:Ah, the french video. It's time to finish watching that one. I'm still miffed that there's no footage of the Blacksky Eye item outside the trailer, but we only have less than three weeks anyways.

fextralife wrote:This is an unofficial name pending translation, from the Japanese name ガラシャの拳.

"Unofficial Translation of description:


I do trust their ability to translate stuff, and the translations are all very consistent. The problem is this isn't the official translation, and as another thread on fextra shows, a direct translation and the official translations may vary wildly. As such, I can only really say "name/description translated from Japanese".

Thank you though, the sticky grenade item is now edited in. You wouldn't happen to know what its name would be in english?


I do not. I wasn't aware that it wasn't the official name, so my apologies on that bit of misinformation. That video shows some really interesting footage of the Pizza Cutter too. The R2 and UTF-TF attack look like they will both be really good for pvp. I'm going to have a full set of poison gems ready for it too, if it has good MHA's
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Covenant/Oath!*

Postby Tsmp » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:05 pm

No, you did everything right. It's important to view any and every piece of information like this, lest even one slip through the cracks.

I'm trying to get a good feel of the pizza cutter's moveset right now. It comes off as oddly short ranged and a bit slow, but the move I take to be the L2 (the one where you hold it in front of you for constant spinning) seems like it could catch quickstep attacks on shorter weapons like BoM. Lingering hitboxes might be the weapon's best strength, as range and speed certainly aren't. Since the entire two-handed moveset appears to be multi-hit, and since the weapon is pure physical damage, I'm expecting it to be horrendously powerful with beast blood pellets, even to the point of being able to build the bar fast enough for use in pvp. Logarius' Wheel can do the same with R2s, but it can't make use of it like this could.

It'll probably be very similar to Logarius' Wheel in trick mode, but without the excellent quickstep R1 and with a faster, sword-like untricked mode. Overall it comes off as rather odd, but I really love the mechanical idea behind it. It's basically a freaking chainsaw in Bloodborne, and the flavor text suggests it gets bonus damage against beasts to boot.
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
Tsmp
 
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 11:47 pm
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Covenant/Oath!*

Postby Astrichthyes » Sat Nov 07, 2015 4:11 am

Tsmp wrote:No, you did everything right. It's important to view any and every piece of information like this, lest even one slip through the cracks.

I'm trying to get a good feel of the pizza cutter's moveset right now. It comes off as oddly short ranged and a bit slow, but the move I take to be the L2 (the one where you hold it in front of you for constant spinning) seems like it could catch quickstep attacks on shorter weapons like BoM. Lingering hitboxes might be the weapon's best strength, as range and speed certainly aren't. Since the entire two-handed moveset appears to be multi-hit, and since the weapon is pure physical damage, I'm expecting it to be horrendously powerful with beast blood pellets, even to the point of being able to build the bar fast enough for use in pvp. Logarius' Wheel can do the same with R2s, but it can't make use of it like this could.

It'll probably be very similar to Logarius' Wheel in trick mode, but without the excellent quickstep R1 and with a faster, sword-like untricked mode. Overall it comes off as rather odd, but I really love the mechanical idea behind it. It's basically a freaking chainsaw in Bloodborne, and the flavor text suggests it gets bonus damage against beasts to boot.

Think about poison with the Pizza Cutter. It might actually be viable, aside from the wheel. I'm rather terrified to think about how it will perform with flat arcane gems. Overall, the moveset looks interesting. Somewhat of a mix between the axe, the kirk, and the wheel. I think it'll be a top-tier weapon. We still don't know what most of the attacks are. A really good backstep or running attack could put this thing on top.
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Covenant/Oath!*

Postby Tsmp » Sat Nov 07, 2015 5:06 am

Astrichthyes wrote:Think about poison with the Pizza Cutter. It might actually be viable, aside from the wheel. I'm rather terrified to think about how it will perform with flat arcane gems. Overall, the moveset looks interesting. Somewhat of a mix between the axe, the kirk, and the wheel. I think it'll be a top-tier weapon. We still don't know what most of the attacks are. A really good backstep or running attack could put this thing on top.


Fair point, the guy showing it off didn't really use it well or demonstrate the full moveset.

I'm largely underwhelmed by poison in pvp, but that could be because I always have antidotes on the hotbar and a Choir Bell sitting around somewhere. Did you know the Choir Bell cures poison? Super useful. But even then, it seems wasteful using poison on a weapon with such huge potential damage. Even with those unoptimized stats, the weak gems, and not even being fully upgraded, it's still hitting 400 AR.

Although, I'm thinking flat gems might be better on it than they would on the Wheel. iirc, a flat gem on a split damage weapon won't gain anything from scaling, but a flat gem on a pure damage weapon does. Unless I'm wrong?
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Covenant/Oath!*

Postby Astrichthyes » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:08 am

Tsmp wrote:
Fair point, the guy showing it off didn't really use it well or demonstrate the full moveset.

I'm largely underwhelmed by poison in pvp, but that could be because I always have antidotes on the hotbar and a Choir Bell sitting around somewhere. Did you know the Choir Bell cures poison? Super useful. But even then, it seems wasteful using poison on a weapon with such huge potential damage. Even with those unoptimized stats, the weak gems, and not even being fully upgraded, it's still hitting 400 AR.

Although, I'm thinking flat gems might be better on it than they would on the Wheel. iirc, a flat gem on a split damage weapon won't gain anything from scaling, but a flat gem on a pure damage weapon does. Unless I'm wrong?

Since the PC is pure phys and has multi-hit, it could deal insane DPS with flat arc because it will switch to arcane with a flat arc gem. If you had 3 arcane%+flatarc on it, it'd be pure arcane and would deal all of that flat AR more per hit. The wheel can hit about 700-800 per qs r1 with flats. This thing might hit 1k. It all depends on the number of multi-hits per attack
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Covenant/Oath!*

Postby Tsmp » Sat Nov 07, 2015 10:45 am

Astrichthyes wrote:Since the PC is pure phys and has multi-hit, it could deal insane DPS with flat arc because it will switch to arcane with a flat arc gem. If you had 3 arcane%+flatarc on it, it'd be pure arcane and would deal all of that flat AR more per hit. The wheel can hit about 700-800 per qs r1 with flats. This thing might hit 1k. It all depends on the number of multi-hits per attack


Aha, that's what it is. The weapon switches to pure elemental, then gains its own natural scaling from there. It doesn't gain scaling off the added flat damage. Makes sense.

I suspect they're probably going to patch how flat damage interacts with multi-hit attacks, unless they really did intend for this weapon to hit absolutely absurd damage levels.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Locations!*

Postby Tsmp » Sat Nov 07, 2015 1:11 pm

Updated thread with new info found here: locations "Research Hall" and "Fishing Hamlet".

The page also makes mention of "unholy magic", which is interesting because the Blacksky Eye's page entry mentions both that it's a secret ritual of the church (implying the opposite of unholy), and that there may be many more arcane tools in the DLC. There are only two things the item descriptions say are forbidden by the church: beasthood-related equipment, and the corrupt blood of Cainhurst. Hopefully this means there are more beast-like hunter tools and Vileblood-themed tools. Especially the latter, because arcane tools with a vileblood flavor would imply a few interesting things, and I'm hoping it'd mean they finally got around to fixing how elemental gems interact with stuff like Reiterpallasch and it's very high, but entirely unusable arcane scaling.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Locations!*

Postby Astrichthyes » Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:45 pm

Tsmp wrote:Updated thread with new info found here: locations "Research Hall" and "Fishing Hamlet".

The page also makes mention of "unholy magic", which is interesting because the Blacksky Eye's page entry mentions both that it's a secret ritual of the church (implying the opposite of unholy), and that there may be many more arcane tools in the DLC. There are only two things the item descriptions say are forbidden by the church: beasthood-related equipment, and the corrupt blood of Cainhurst. Hopefully this means there are more beast-like hunter tools and Vileblood-themed tools. Especially the latter, because arcane tools with a vileblood flavor would imply a few interesting things, and I'm hoping it'd mean they finally got around to fixing how elemental gems interact with stuff like Reiterpallasch and it's very high, but entirely unusable arcane scaling.

If they allowed Reiter to be elemental, it would have to retain its Blood AR as well. If it didn't, you'd have elemental Reiters hitting absurd amounts of damage with each bullet (think arcane%+flatarcane again).

I'm really anxious to see the new spells. The ones in the base game are cool, but so limited that most are almost unusable against skilled players. All it takes to avoid Augur or TT is taking one step to either side of the spell's path. That's half of the offensive spells right there. Blacksky Eye looks like it will probably deal about as much damage as Augur, perhaps a little less, for 1 bullet cost. I don't imagine it will be any more than that.

Something interesting that I would personally like to see with the Beastmode is that it would be powerful, but risky to use because of Pungent Blood Cocktail hi-jacking your character, like it does to the in-game beasts. Also, serration should help compensate for any large damage increase from the transformation. It also makes me wonder: will there be a Kin-mode too?

Supposedly the patch will be out about 2 days before the DLC. At least, according to the Playstation Store when I pre-ordered the DLC. That should open up the new covenant, unless they decide to hold back on that content until the full DLC release
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Locations!*

Postby Tsmp » Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:23 am

Astrichthyes wrote:If they allowed Reiter to be elemental, it would have to retain its Blood AR as well. If it didn't, you'd have elemental Reiters hitting absurd amounts of damage with each bullet (think arcane%+flatarcane again).

I'm really anxious to see the new spells. The ones in the base game are cool, but so limited that most are almost unusable against skilled players. All it takes to avoid Augur or TT is taking one step to either side of the spell's path. That's half of the offensive spells right there. Blacksky Eye looks like it will probably deal about as much damage as Augur, perhaps a little less, for 1 bullet cost. I don't imagine it will be any more than that.

Something interesting that I would personally like to see with the Beastmode is that it would be powerful, but risky to use because of Pungent Blood Cocktail hi-jacking your character, like it does to the in-game beasts. Also, serration should help compensate for any large damage increase from the transformation. It also makes me wonder: will there be a Kin-mode too?

Supposedly the patch will be out about 2 days before the DLC. At least, according to the Playstation Store when I pre-ordered the DLC. That should open up the new covenant, unless they decide to hold back on that content until the full DLC release


Yeah, that's what I meant about the reiter, it keeping it's blood damage on bullets but having the weapon damage change to elemental. It'd at least give another build type for bloodtinge to use instead of always blt/skl, and it'd give something for blt/arc to build around. Although, it technically wouldn't be a whole lot different from just using an arcane weapon and a gun.

Using Glove, then following it with something else is the standard spell combo. It mostly just takes a lot of practice with the tools to understand how they move and what their hitbox looks like. I swear Augur's hitbox shape is different every time it fires. Blacksky Eye seems like it'd be easy to dodge, but it's at least faster than Augur and doesn't leave you vulnerable for as long. I'm mainly just hoping for a fireball spell, I've always liked those.

A lot of people seem to forget that beasthood reduces your defenses slightly more than it increases your physical attack. If someone's running around with 300+ beasthood active, they have +70% physical damage but -80% to all defenses. And their attack boost will slowly deplete unless they remain aggressive enough to keep it up, and this encourages them to drop their guard and stay vulnerable. It's a very risky playstyle as is. As for the beastmode, what I'd find interesting is if triggering it changed the moveset of whatever weapon you're using. Or, at the very least, just change the moveset and animations of weapons/tools with the Beast prefix. Maybe also locking in the beasthood bonus you had before triggering beastmode? And I want the duration to be until death. :D Blood cocktail doesn't actually work on all beasts oddly enough, so there's reasonable grounds for why it wouldn't work on a player (aside from the obvious "removing control from the player" part, I mean). I'd love to see serration/holy bonuses and +/- beast/kin effects actually getting a use in pvp though, it'd at least do something about those 27.2% gems that otherwise have no downside.

Kin-mode? I'd love to see that, but I'm not sure if it'd fit lore-wise. This might just be my own interpretation of the lore speaking, but I get the impression that the sort of creature you turn into depends on what Great One you got your blood from, and that there are three different types at play in the game. The Healing Church's blood comes from Oedon (or maybe Moon Presence?), who is bestial and animalistic like the silverbeasts. The blood used by the Choir comes from Ebrietas, who's all sea-slug like and alien, not to mention a Kin. Cainhurst blood is the corrupted blood forbidden by the Church, and their transformed states take on vampiric or outright spectral properties. If this were true, it would explain what in the sam hell happened to Ludwig: he, being the Church's first hunter, could have operated in a time before the Choir split off from the Healing Church, and when they gave him blood it was a mixed dose of both Kin and Beast, so when he finally transformed it was a horrific hybrid of the two. Our hunter, however, doesn't show up until well after the Choir split off, and they only get a dose of the beast blood, meaning their transformation involves lots of hair and not much in the way of space lasers. However, there's a problem with this theory in the corrupted cainhurst blood: Vilebloods transform into a different beast type altogether, unrelated to the canine beasts of the Church. When the queen gives you her blood, she says that this is sufficient to turn you into a Vileblood like her. However, it has no effect on your beasthood stuff like claws or the aura for pellets.

But regardless, I think if they were going to implement a Kin-mode (and hopefully a Cainmode, just to have all three), it might have something to do with what Oath rune you have equipped... or at least, that's what I would've said before they went and added a fourth rune. And Sony's own descriptions of the DLC are saying an awful lot about transforming into and/or harnessing your inner beast, but not much about other things. And if you can only turn into a beast but not into a kin, then I wouldn't expect the mechanics that apply only to beasts to also apply to players since -kin effects would still remain unaffected (meaning everyone would take those as penalties instead and not much would change). It's possible it does exist and they're just keeping it under tight wraps so the players will have something to discover, but as it stands the mechanics in the game don't work in favor of it very well. I mean, you'd think a kin-mode would be arcane based, but the Transformed status effect (the official name for an active beasthood meter, according to the manual) only affects your physical damage, and only with melee weapons. Something would have to change the way your Transformation bar works, I guess.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Locations!*

Postby Astrichthyes » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:50 am

Tsmp wrote:Yeah, that's what I meant about the reiter, it keeping it's blood damage on bullets but having the weapon damage change to elemental. It'd at least give another build type for bloodtinge to use instead of always blt/skl, and it'd give something for blt/arc to build around. Although, it technically wouldn't be a whole lot different from just using an arcane weapon and a gun.

Using Glove, then following it with something else is the standard spell combo. It mostly just takes a lot of practice with the tools to understand how they move and what their hitbox looks like. I swear Augur's hitbox shape is different every time it fires. Blacksky Eye seems like it'd be easy to dodge, but it's at least faster than Augur and doesn't leave you vulnerable for as long. I'm mainly just hoping for a fireball spell, I've always liked those.

A lot of people seem to forget that beasthood reduces your defenses slightly more than it increases your physical attack. If someone's running around with 300+ beasthood active, they have +70% physical damage but -80% to all defenses. And their attack boost will slowly deplete unless they remain aggressive enough to keep it up, and this encourages them to drop their guard and stay vulnerable. It's a very risky playstyle as is. As for the beastmode, what I'd find interesting is if triggering it changed the moveset of whatever weapon you're using. Or, at the very least, just change the moveset and animations of weapons/tools with the Beast prefix. Maybe also locking in the beasthood bonus you had before triggering beastmode? And I want the duration to be until death. :D Blood cocktail doesn't actually work on all beasts oddly enough, so there's reasonable grounds for why it wouldn't work on a player (aside from the obvious "removing control from the player" part, I mean). I'd love to see serration/holy bonuses and +/- beast/kin effects actually getting a use in pvp though, it'd at least do something about those 27.2% gems that otherwise have no downside.

Kin-mode? I'd love to see that, but I'm not sure if it'd fit lore-wise. This might just be my own interpretation of the lore speaking, but I get the impression that the sort of creature you turn into depends on what Great One you got your blood from, and that there are three different types at play in the game. The Healing Church's blood comes from Oedon (or maybe Moon Presence?), who is bestial and animalistic like the silverbeasts. The blood used by the Choir comes from Ebrietas, who's all sea-slug like and alien, not to mention a Kin. Cainhurst blood is the corrupted blood forbidden by the Church, and their transformed states take on vampiric or outright spectral properties. If this were true, it would explain what in the sam hell happened to Ludwig: he, being the Church's first hunter, could have operated in a time before the Choir split off from the Healing Church, and when they gave him blood it was a mixed dose of both Kin and Beast, so when he finally transformed it was a horrific hybrid of the two. Our hunter, however, doesn't show up until well after the Choir split off, and they only get a dose of the beast blood, meaning their transformation involves lots of hair and not much in the way of space lasers. However, there's a problem with this theory in the corrupted cainhurst blood: Vilebloods transform into a different beast type altogether, unrelated to the canine beasts of the Church. When the queen gives you her blood, she says that this is sufficient to turn you into a Vileblood like her. However, it has no effect on your beasthood stuff like claws or the aura for pellets.

But regardless, I think if they were going to implement a Kin-mode (and hopefully a Cainmode, just to have all three), it might have something to do with what Oath rune you have equipped... or at least, that's what I would've said before they went and added a fourth rune. And Sony's own descriptions of the DLC are saying an awful lot about transforming into and/or harnessing your inner beast, but not much about other things. And if you can only turn into a beast but not into a kin, then I wouldn't expect the mechanics that apply only to beasts to also apply to players since -kin effects would still remain unaffected (meaning everyone would take those as penalties instead and not much would change). It's possible it does exist and they're just keeping it under tight wraps so the players will have something to discover, but as it stands the mechanics in the game don't work in favor of it very well. I mean, you'd think a kin-mode would be arcane based, but the Transformed status effect (the official name for an active beasthood meter, according to the manual) only affects your physical damage, and only with melee weapons. Something would have to change the way your Transformation bar works, I guess.

I wrote this once and it got deleted, but I guess i'll write it again. Here goes.

Reiter originally changed to elemental damage with the respective gems, but they changed it with the day 1 patch, likely because they anticipated it would be game-breaking. I played through the unpatched version of the game and happened to test it on a whim.

If they implemented a Kinmode, it could very well go along with the lore that Hunters who actively seek insight and sympathize with the Great Ones become Kin. I imagine the bonus(es) could be something along the lines of specific defense increases, decreased spell costs, new spell animations, increased spell effectiveness, or something along those lines. It would also give the beast and kin curses a pvp application, making all of the curses have a potential cost in pvp and fixing the paradox that exists in the game now because it was not implemented in the first place. There could also be tiers of beast/kinhood, based on your insight. 0 insight would max your beasthood, while 99 insight would max your kinhood. Beasthood would be more difficult to maintain, but could have greater leniency in the tiers than kinhood. This is all just warm-and-fuzzy thoughts about what they COULD do to increase the interest value in pvp beyond some new weapons and spells.

I don't think that Gloves-to-whatever should be the best way to land a given spell, or the only potential combo. It's so generic and allows for little creativity. Not to mention that it's not very cost-efficient. If they added a conjured whip/sword/whatever or fireball spell (like the one from DeS, not DkS, with some AoE to work with), we could have more nuanced casting capability than "use x spell, then y spell so y can hit and maybe x too" or "wait until your opponent uses a slow attack and then cast your spell". You could actually use melee and then follow up with a spell or visa versa. Ramping the speed of spells up a bit and making them a little less predictable would help too by allowing them to be used in more applications. Right now, we have a long range homing spell, a short range homing spell, and 2 line-of-sight spells that take one slight sidestep to avoid and have a long casting time. No horizontal spells whatsoever. Blacksky Eye is going to be line-of-sight as well, so that's not going to be hard to avoid. I'm praying for something other than line-of-sight or homing spells.

I never thought of having a Cainhurst mode. If they did implement that, I don't imagine there to be any applicable curse besides weakness to church weapons. I don't think boosting the damage of Blood attacks would be at all a good idea because it would make Bloodtinge even more overpowered and unbalanced. Unless they gave it an increased hp cost for chikage, as well as an hp cost per bullet. It'd be hilarious to watch gunspammers kill themselves with their own lack of discipline. They will, after all, be getting a new weapon if my suspicions are correct on the new rifle being the one the rifle spear is based on and it being bloodtinge-based.

There's so much potential for this DLC that it really could change the game entirely. New Dark Magic, new weapons, new covenants, new enemies that may (and should) show up in the dungeons. I'm hopeful for the future of Bloodborne, but we'll see if all the hype is really worth it soon enough.

Something of note: Beasthood has not actually been tested on whether it decreases your percent defs, your physical def and not your elemdef (splitting your Alldef into 2 separate stats), or your Alldef itself. If it decreases Alldef, then the actual damage increase against you could be quite high, especially against mixed-AR weapons like the Wheel, Toni, BoM, or BB. If it only decreases physdef, then it's actually a very effective strategy for dealing with arcane builds since their damage would stay the same except on those aforementioned hybrid weapons. Armor defs, being a percentage, would have a fair amount of impact as well, but not as much as your natural def might.
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Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Locations!*

Postby Tsmp » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:58 am

Astrichthyes wrote:I wrote this once and it got deleted, but I guess i'll write it again. Here goes.

Reiter originally changed to elemental damage with the respective gems, but they changed it with the day 1 patch, likely because they anticipated it would be game-breaking. I played through the unpatched version of the game and happened to test it on a whim.

If they implemented a Kinmode, it could very well go along with the lore that Hunters who actively seek insight and sympathize with the Great Ones become Kin. I imagine the bonus(es) could be something along the lines of specific defense increases, decreased spell costs, new spell animations, increased spell effectiveness, or something along those lines. It would also give the beast and kin curses a pvp application, making all of the curses have a potential cost in pvp and fixing the paradox that exists in the game now because it was not implemented in the first place. There could also be tiers of beast/kinhood, based on your insight. 0 insight would max your beasthood, while 99 insight would max your kinhood. Beasthood would be more difficult to maintain, but could have greater leniency in the tiers than kinhood. This is all just warm-and-fuzzy thoughts about what they COULD do to increase the interest value in pvp beyond some new weapons and spells.

I don't think that Gloves-to-whatever should be the best way to land a given spell, or the only potential combo. It's so generic and allows for little creativity. Not to mention that it's not very cost-efficient. If they added a conjured whip/sword/whatever or fireball spell (like the one from DeS, not DkS, with some AoE to work with), we could have more nuanced casting capability than "use x spell, then y spell so y can hit and maybe x too" or "wait until your opponent uses a slow attack and then cast your spell". You could actually use melee and then follow up with a spell or visa versa. Ramping the speed of spells up a bit and making them a little less predictable would help too by allowing them to be used in more applications. Right now, we have a long range homing spell, a short range homing spell, and 2 line-of-sight spells that take one slight sidestep to avoid and have a long casting time. No horizontal spells whatsoever. Blacksky Eye is going to be line-of-sight as well, so that's not going to be hard to avoid. I'm praying for something other than line-of-sight or homing spells.

I never thought of having a Cainhurst mode. If they did implement that, I don't imagine there to be any applicable curse besides weakness to church weapons. I don't think boosting the damage of Blood attacks would be at all a good idea because it would make Bloodtinge even more overpowered and unbalanced. Unless they gave it an increased hp cost for chikage, as well as an hp cost per bullet. It'd be hilarious to watch gunspammers kill themselves with their own lack of discipline. They will, after all, be getting a new weapon if my suspicions are correct on the new rifle being the one the rifle spear is based on and it being bloodtinge-based.

There's so much potential for this DLC that it really could change the game entirely. New Dark Magic, new weapons, new covenants, new enemies that may (and should) show up in the dungeons. I'm hopeful for the future of Bloodborne, but we'll see if all the hype is really worth it soon enough.

Something of note: Beasthood has not actually been tested on whether it decreases your percent defs, your physical def and not your elemdef (splitting your Alldef into 2 separate stats), or your Alldef itself. If it decreases Alldef, then the actual damage increase against you could be quite high, especially against mixed-AR weapons like the Wheel, Toni, BoM, or BB. If it only decreases physdef, then it's actually a very effective strategy for dealing with arcane builds since their damage would stay the same except on those aforementioned hybrid weapons. Armor defs, being a percentage, would have a fair amount of impact as well, but not as much as your natural def might.


I'm sorry, I thought this was common knowledge so I never bothered to mention it. :( Yes, beasthood reduces your AllDefense. I was testing it out with NPC_Invader from fextralife trying to see if it triggered beasthood effect gems, and we were able to accidentally confirm that higher beasthood increased fire, arcane, and bolt damage against you as well as physical damage. You can actually see this in the stat screen to a point, because your "PhysicalDefense" (the one that goes up when you gain levels and actually affects all defenses, the lying jerk) drops down to terrifyingly low numbers.

Hmm. Yes, it would make sense that a kin mode should affect your arcane tools in some way, and that might actually help to make them more viable in pvp. And if there's a kin mode along with a beast mode, the next thought that springs to mind is they ought to make them affected by anti- kin/beast damage effects. I believe this would have a favorable impact on pvp, since if you're fighting someone with a bunch of -beast effects in their weapons you could actually make them suffer their curse by turning into a beast yourself... and then they pull out a cursed beasthunter -kin saw spear and just ruin your day (assuming serration effects would apply to players, but it might not if they don't count as "giant/grotesque" beasts), but the fact that they'd have to change their tactics in the middle of a fight is itself another layer of depth to the game. Thinking about kinhood with 99 insight, I'd imagine it comes with its own built-in weakness: frenzy damage. If players had a way to inflict the frenzy status, it'd spank max kin players something fierce.

I agree about spell variety being an issue. I love how very unique and versatile each of the spells we already have are, but the fact is that there are just some glaring holes in the selection that make a tool-focused arcane playstyle difficult to use in pvp. Blacksky Eye fills one of these holes by being a quick straight-line projectile, but as you said one of the ones missing is a horizontal wall-type spell, as well as a centered-on-caster AoE burst spell, and a targeted AoE burst projectile. I'd normally say a cone damage spell would be needed, but Flamesprayer and Rosmarinus actually do that very well.

I suppose the inherent problem with a "cainmode" form would be the holy damage modifier: It would be absolute suffering if you transformed into one, and then your opponent's LHB suddenly gained +50% extra damage against you on top of the three +27% gems they already have, with no -vileblood curse effects to compensate. But as far as the lore is concerned, Vilebloods are virtually extinct and there is very little reason to think they'd be a factor at all. Heck, even the part I mentioned about Annalise making you a Vileblood but it not affecting your beasthood stuff at all may very well rule out a cainhurst mode. Although, if there was one, the thing that comes to mind is something along the lines of Queen Yharnam with her crazy-ass blood magics and blood sword. But Chikage is the only weapon that could be called anything close to that, and Executioner's Glove is the only tool that resembles anything near it, so if they were going to add a "cainmode" they'd need a heck of a lot more equipment to make it interesting. And then change how the holy modifier works to probably make it a gem or something. And then add -vileblood curse effects to gems. Just a whole lot of stuff really, it'd be easier and more consistent if they just didn't.
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Locations!*

Postby Astrichthyes » Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:15 pm

I envision a spell that conjures a whip - much like the fragmented threaded cane - or a sword for a horizontal attack. Fire would be a great attribute for it to symbolize the beast-flogging that the cane was meant for. Arcane would be a reasonable alternative. Not sure how a bolt version of this spell would look, but we certainly need a little more elemental variety to our spells. Right now, we have 1 bolt spell, while the rest are arcane. I don't really count the sprayers as spells because they work much like an AoE rapid fire gun. Regardless, sprayers can be quite scary in pvp.

Giving Augur a cone-shaped effect would improve it greatly. This is something that could definitely put it high up on the list of viable spells. We may see something along the lines of Abyss magic this time around as well. What I REALLY like about Bloodborne is that spells are no longer offhand-catalyst-based, freeing up a left hand slot. Combining the Faith and Magic stats was also brilliant and trimmed down to the most basic stats for the game (unless you count Bloodtinge as an alternative "caster" stat)

Limiting it to Beast and Kinmode, we'd have balance. I feel a Cainmode would be unnecessary and would, like you say, require an additional curse, additional primary and secondary gem effects for it, make Church weapons extremely overpowered against them, and add a slew of new things on its own. Beast and Kinmode wouldn't require much to incorporate because the rest of the stuff, like serration and hunter gem effects, is already a part of the game. If they have a Beastmode, I see no reason for them to omit a Kinmode to balance it out. And, if beastmode is for physical boosts, then it's a given that Kinmode should be arcane in nature.

Something I would really love for spells is the ability to give them a moveset of sorts. If you're running and use a greatsword spell, give it a different animation like swinging it across the body in the other direction, or downward, etc. That would completely open up new possibilities for the game and make magic much more fun and practical to use. For the homing spells, this would not be applicable, but for spells like augur and TT, it could add more to the interest value.
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Weapons!*

Postby Tsmp » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:29 am

Oh my god, no wonder your response was taking so long. I typed up that massive reply, posted it, and it disappeared. And now I can't remember what all I had said. :cry:

On a happier note: new Famitsu stuff, courtesy of Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/comments/3t9zv2/new_famitsu_article/

And here's the full image: https://madokami.com/2ulg6d.jpg
Last edited by Tsmp on Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
Tsmp
 
Posts: 2258
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 11:47 pm
Country: United States (us)
PSN Name: TSMP1

Re: Bloodborne Expansion Thread *New Weapons!*

Postby Kiev892000 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:45 pm

Can anybody explain to me why I can't get to level 4 in level 5 dungeon . Let's say I beat Boss on level 3 and there is no way to go . I have an option to return to Hunter's Dream . It usually new door opens up after you defeat Boss and elevator that brings you down .
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