So, I bought the guide and...

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So, I bought the guide and...

Postby Astrichthyes » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:31 am

Honestly, the thing is massive. It's like a textbook. The pictures are pretty and there are a few typos, but something really irks me. Well, a few things.

They do not have a specific, nor accurate, drop list for enemies in the bestiary in terms of gems. The details are often vague enough that it simply says " random blood gem based on area".
There is almost zero information on the effects of rites in the chalice dungeons.
Furthermore, there is only a brief description of each gem type with maximum gem boosts that represent an abyssal gem from the watchers that doesn't even seem to exist. Flat gems that go up to 93.8 in an elemental stat? Where are these so-called incredible gems? And the flat BT gems?
The digital version was given to you in the hard copy as a code, yet the guide does not exist. The digital guide has also been on PlayStation store for weeks with no set release date and no indication that you're paying for something that does not exist.

All of this being taken onto account, I am beginning to wonder what From is even doing for their fan base anymore besides work on DLC's and new games, fixing whatever bugs they find that are gamebreaking and ignoring the issues that make the game hard to play (OHKO range phantom hp, overpowered BT, etc)

Not trying to rant here, but I'm feeling less and less confident in this game developer with each step they take.

On a side note, I have all the info in the guide available and will share any info that is asked for. I'll also include all important information I find in the digital guide when it is released
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: So, I bought the guide and...

Postby Tsmp » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:47 am

Welcome to now, there is so much wrong with the guide that it's just silly. I posted a thread about it on a couple of forums, but forgot to make one here. I'm sorry.

Here is a link to one of those posts. Note that the stamina/weight system has since been patched out, both the guide and I were wrong about how the HoH rune works (I'm still a little unclear on it, tbh), and I actually missed a couple of things the first time through that currently elude my memory.

There are very few enemies that don't drop gems, if only rarely. What determines gem drops is not location, but enemy type. Pthumeru dungeons give radial gems, Loran dungeons give waning gems, and Isz dungeons give triangle gems. The guide really dropped the ball on this one.

The Fetid rite causes some of the watcher-type enemies to gain a red aura. These enemies have increases stats, but the gems they drop get some ridiculous boost in strength and variety. The Rotten offering will add new enemies to your dungeon, specifically NPC enemy hunters and various horrible witches that do various horrible things (Hemwicks that summon those screaming black sickle ghosts, long-legged witches that buff other enemies and spam fireballs, etc). The Curse rite halves your Hp while in the dungeon and makes traps more common, but gives gem drops an extremely high chance of being cursed and makes dropped gems slightly stronger overall. The Sinister rite guarantees a sinister Bell Maiden spawn in every floor of the dungeon (normally the chance is something near 1/20), and you can cause a second sinister bell maiden to spawn by ringing your sinister bell, which allows two invaders to enter your world simultaneously.

I've yet to confirm the supposed "boss rush" or "spider dungeon" effects they list, however I have entered some dungeons with a boss replacing the normal enemies in one room. I've also found an effect where a dungeon will seem to think it's the Hintertombs, and everything becomes poisonous. The smoke, the water, the enemies...

Creation of the guide wasn't necessarily done by FromSoftware. I'm not sure how much material was given to Future Press to put into the guide, but IIRC FP did most of the exploration and guide-work themselves. I don't think FromSoft should get too much blame for this one.
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: So, I bought the guide and...

Postby Astrichthyes » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:31 pm

Tsmp wrote:Welcome to now, there is so much wrong with the guide that it's just silly. I posted a thread about it on a couple of forums, but forgot to make one here. I'm sorry.

Here is a link to one of those posts. Note that the stamina/weight system has since been patched out, both the guide and I were wrong about how the HoH rune works (I'm still a little unclear on it, tbh), and I actually missed a couple of things the first time through that currently elude my memory.

There are very few enemies that don't drop gems, if only rarely. What determines gem drops is not location, but enemy type. Pthumeru dungeons give radial gems, Loran dungeons give waning gems, and Isz dungeons give triangle gems. The guide really dropped the ball on this one.

The Fetid rite causes some of the watcher-type enemies to gain a red aura. These enemies have increases stats, but the gems they drop get some ridiculous boost in strength and variety. The Rotten offering will add new enemies to your dungeon, specifically NPC enemy hunters and various horrible witches that do various horrible things (Hemwicks that summon those screaming black sickle ghosts, long-legged witches that buff other enemies and spam fireballs, etc). The Curse rite halves your Hp while in the dungeon and makes traps more common, but gives gem drops an extremely high chance of being cursed and makes dropped gems slightly stronger overall. The Sinister rite guarantees a sinister Bell Maiden spawn in every floor of the dungeon (normally the chance is something near 1/20), and you can cause a second sinister bell maiden to spawn by ringing your sinister bell, which allows two invaders to enter your world simultaneously.

I've yet to confirm the supposed "boss rush" or "spider dungeon" effects they list, however I have entered some dungeons with a boss replacing the normal enemies in one room. I've also found an effect where a dungeon will seem to think it's the Hintertombs, and everything becomes poisonous. The smoke, the water, the enemies...

Creation of the guide wasn't necessarily done by FromSoftware. I'm not sure how much material was given to Future Press to put into the guide, but IIRC FP did most of the exploration and guide-work themselves. I don't think FromSoft should get too much blame for this one.

What baffles me is why they didn't have a drop list for the bosses in the chalice dungeons, hints on what gems are added with rites, and even accurate information. Having outdated or unused mechanics in a guide upon its release is absurd. The drop list is simple: X boss drops y gem type with A-B range of primary benefit values and C-D range for each possible secondary effect. We shouldn't have to figure this out ourselves with hundreds of hours of farming
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: So, I bought the guide and...

Postby Tsmp » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:24 pm

Astrichthyes wrote:What baffles me is why they didn't have a drop list for the bosses in the chalice dungeons, hints on what gems are added with rites, and even accurate information. Having outdated or unused mechanics in a guide upon its release is absurd. The drop list is simple: X boss drops y gem type with A-B range of primary benefit values and C-D range for each possible secondary effect. We shouldn't have to figure this out ourselves with hundreds of hours of farming

Don't forget, the most recent patch actually changed how bosses drop gems. It used to be that the gem a boss gives was determined when the dungeon was created, whereas now the gem is determined when a boss is defeated. Back when the guide was being made, they'd've had to make literally tens of thousands of dungeons, hope that 10% of those dungeons had the boss they were trying to get drop data on, then kill that boss at least one thousand times to get a rough idea of what all the boss can drop.

On a side note, I seem to recall someone saying that you generally get odd (flat) gems from chests, though I've seen a picture of a spectacular odd bolt gem someone got from a fetid-buffed labyrinth madman with a total of over +90, although that was due to the gem's first ability being +30 and the gem's second ability being +60-ish. So, over 90 on a flat gem appears to be possible but only in unusual circumstances. I think the guide might've been conflating a few things here and there without mentioning it.
Image
Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: So, I bought the guide and...

Postby arctic_dan » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:13 pm

I have the guide to and whats sad is that all of this can be obsolete or outdated in no time. The online Guide claims that they will add the newest up to date info on there. Which is a hell of a lot better when you can update your stuff. I think this guide is a good idea but its a waist, as the information gets outdated to quickly or things are overlooked. You can't ask for a recall of all the books and fix the mistakes. A book needs much planning and needs to stay useful for at least.. A little while. The game gets updates and patches yet the books stay the same. Shortly after purchase my book has been collecting dust. Makes a good coaster. Quite big. But it is frustrating to see that there is a lot of information missing. I was still lost after reading it. A lot of things made no sense to me. Im sure thats why they have this online guide going. Still waiting on it tho. By the time they release it Dks3 will be out, or maybe the guide is being rewritten as the information is already outdated. Who knows right.
It always surprised me that just regular people with early access to the game would make a guide book. In the end if you think about it you and I and our friends can make a detailed guidebook as well. What I'm saying is the developers if anyone should make a book. They know the game inside and out. Literally. I know people love the hands on book but Im sure we can all agree that a digital copy would be a better option as they could update info as they publish new content as they update and patch the game and from there we would always know the information is correct.
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Re: So, I bought the guide and...

Postby Astrichthyes » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:59 pm

arctic_dan wrote:What I'm saying is the developers if anyone should make a book. They know the game inside and out. Literally. I know people love the hands on book but Im sure we can all agree that a digital copy would be a better option as they could update info as they publish new content as they update and patch the game and from there we would always know the information is correct.

I wholeheartedly agree. Either the devs did not divulge enough information to FP or FP did not divulge all of the information that From provided.

Still, what I didn't like is that the guide has mechanics and information on things that were never implemented after the first patch. I've seen no indication of boss rush existing as a mechanic from day 1. Lethal gems are yet to be found with no other effects that take dominance and they certainly don't go nearly as high as is mentioned. The same goes for Finestrike. I can confirm that the spider dungeon effect is there, but I've only seen it when there are rock headed spiders. I haven't seen Rom appear when there are only normal spiders.

I don't think FS and FP worked together close enough to really make this guide worthwhile. The main reason I bought it was because I got it cheap and wouldn't have to dish out an extra $10 for the digital guide that may take another month or three to finally come out. That, and the fact that it makes for a nice reference when I have to look at AR values and make calculations. Still, it's the end of June and they have been postponing it since... April? What i'm thinking is: how long is it going to take for us to finally get this guide and is it even going to be worth it?
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: So, I bought the guide and...

Postby Magicisoverrated » Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:47 am

Astrichthyes wrote:Honestly, the thing is massive. It's like a textbook. The pictures are pretty and there are a few typos, but something really irks me. Well, a few things.

They do not have a specific, nor accurate, drop list for enemies in the bestiary in terms of gems. The details are often vague enough that it simply says " random blood gem based on area".
There is almost zero information on the effects of rites in the chalice dungeons.
Furthermore, there is only a brief description of each gem type with maximum gem boosts that represent an abyssal gem from the watchers that doesn't even seem to exist. Flat gems that go up to 93.8 in an elemental stat? Where are these so-called incredible gems? And the flat BT gems?
The digital version was given to you in the hard copy as a code, yet the guide does not exist. The digital guide has also been on PlayStation store for weeks with no set release date and no indication that you're paying for something that does not exist.

All of this being taken onto account, I am beginning to wonder what From is even doing for their fan base anymore besides work on DLC's and new games, fixing whatever bugs they find that are gamebreaking and ignoring the issues that make the game hard to play (OHKO range phantom hp, overpowered BT, etc)

Not trying to rant here, but I'm feeling less and less confident in this game developer with each step they take.

On a side note, I have all the info in the guide available and will share any info that is asked for. I'll also include all important information I find in the digital guide when it is released


The unfortunate truth of things is that communities like this have obsoleted guides. The only real reason to own a guide nowadays is for the illustrations and insight to the game in it's pre-deployment phase. There is almost no reason to buy a guide in today's world, ever. As far as typos are concerned i've even seen those in modern novels. The quality of work is just not there anymore in the face of consumerism quantity>quality and you can see this in every aspect of the modern market.

But i digress, i will buy a guide for the interesting illustrations but i will not buy a guide for accurate info, especially if it's a FromSoftware game, there is no more valuable source of information than other people regardless.
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Re: So, I bought the guide and...

Postby Astrichthyes » Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:41 am

Magicisoverrated wrote:
Astrichthyes wrote:Honestly, the thing is massive. It's like a textbook. The pictures are pretty and there are a few typos, but something really irks me. Well, a few things.

They do not have a specific, nor accurate, drop list for enemies in the bestiary in terms of gems. The details are often vague enough that it simply says " random blood gem based on area".
There is almost zero information on the effects of rites in the chalice dungeons.
Furthermore, there is only a brief description of each gem type with maximum gem boosts that represent an abyssal gem from the watchers that doesn't even seem to exist. Flat gems that go up to 93.8 in an elemental stat? Where are these so-called incredible gems? And the flat BT gems?
The digital version was given to you in the hard copy as a code, yet the guide does not exist. The digital guide has also been on PlayStation store for weeks with no set release date and no indication that you're paying for something that does not exist.

All of this being taken onto account, I am beginning to wonder what From is even doing for their fan base anymore besides work on DLC's and new games, fixing whatever bugs they find that are gamebreaking and ignoring the issues that make the game hard to play (OHKO range phantom hp, overpowered BT, etc)

Not trying to rant here, but I'm feeling less and less confident in this game developer with each step they take.

On a side note, I have all the info in the guide available and will share any info that is asked for. I'll also include all important information I find in the digital guide when it is released


The unfortunate truth of things is that communities like this have obsoleted guides. The only real reason to own a guide nowadays is for the illustrations and insight to the game in it's pre-deployment phase. There is almost no reason to buy a guide in today's world, ever. As far as typos are concerned i've even seen those in modern novels. The quality of work is just not there anymore in the face of consumerism quantity>quality and you can see this in every aspect of the modern market.

But i digress, i will buy a guide for the interesting illustrations but i will not buy a guide for accurate info, especially if it's a FromSoftware game, there is no more valuable source of information than other people regardless.

This is true, but they were in over their heads with this one. Had they been more thorough on the gem drop list, the guide would have been invaluable, even as shared information from one player to many or as a reference. The digital guide deadline is within 48 hours, so let's hope they keep to it and release accurate information regarding gems and rites.
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: So, I bought the guide and...

Postby Astrichthyes » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:11 pm

Alright, it's July 1st. Is this guide out yet or are we waiting until next June? Pardon the frustration on my behalf. I honestly can't wait to get the thing because I've been waiting for it for well over a month. I'd check myself, but I may not be able to hop on the ps4 anytime soon
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
User avatar
Astrichthyes
 
Posts: 601
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2011 4:05 am
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PSN Name: astrichthyes, astrichthyes2, astrichthyes3

Re: So, I bought the guide and...

Postby Tsmp » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:10 pm

Astrichthyes wrote:Alright, it's July 1st. Is this guide out yet or are we waiting until next June? Pardon the frustration on my behalf. I honestly can't wait to get the thing because I've been waiting for it for well over a month. I'd check myself, but I may not be able to hop on the ps4 anytime soon

Release date still says "June 25th, 2015" and that it's not out yet, so I'm guessing no. Maybe something terrible happened.
Image
Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
Tsmp
 
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Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 11:47 pm
Country: United States (us)
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Re: So, I bought the guide and...

Postby Astrichthyes » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:54 pm

Tsmp wrote:
Astrichthyes wrote:Alright, it's July 1st. Is this guide out yet or are we waiting until next June? Pardon the frustration on my behalf. I honestly can't wait to get the thing because I've been waiting for it for well over a month. I'd check myself, but I may not be able to hop on the ps4 anytime soon

Release date still says "June 25th, 2015" and that it's not out yet, so I'm guessing no. Maybe something terrible happened.

Hopefully the delay is due to them making a comprehensive gem drop list

Edit: they released the hunting grounds chapter. The rest is supposed to come out in the next few days. Let's hope it's not just a rehash of the book
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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