What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

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What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby plaintomato » Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:44 pm

http://www.vg247.com/2015/06/02/source- ... ouncement/

Whether this turns out to be legit or not, all I can say is I hope they take their time and release a nigh-perfect masterpiece.

Four games in and everything has been really really good but always just shy of greatness, but after BB I feel like I've lost faith that they can deliver anything more than another mashup just changing sh*t up instead of really delivering on the amazing potential these games really have. Please be amazing.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Astro_Train » Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:20 pm

looks like it is legit... we will know when E3 gets here... and as long as Miyezaki is directing bring it on... I hope some glory is restored as Dark Souls 2 was a bit of let down for me.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby arctic_dan » Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:31 pm

If it is a "Souls" FromSoftware game regardless I will be playing. I was kinda happy that they made bloodborne as a fresh and completely new IP. I personally hope they keep going with the Bloodborne IP rather then Dark Souls IP. Unless it is remastered like Bloodborne with fast paced aggressive game play.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Tsmp » Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:04 pm

So, an anonymous person who knows of VG247 told them Namco will announce Dark Souls 3 at E3. Their reasoning for this is that Shuhei Yoshida recently announced an expansion for Bloodborne. They say they've reached out to Namco for a comment, but haven't received a response.

Forgive me if I find this highly dubious.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby plaintomato » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:23 pm

Astro_Train wrote:looks like it is legit... we will know when E3 gets here... and as long as Miyezaki is directing bring it on... I hope some glory is restored as Dark Souls 2 was a bit of let down for me.

IMO Bloodborne is the worst in the series by far. Which is not to say I don't like it, so there's that.
Tsmp wrote:So, an anonymous person who knows of VG247 told them Namco will announce Dark Souls 3 at E3. Their reasoning for this is that Shuhei Yoshida recently announced an expansion for Bloodborne. They say they've reached out to Namco for a comment, but haven't received a response.

Forgive me if I find this highly dubious.

I forgive you. But it's looking pretty legit. http://gematsu.com/2015/06/dark-souls-i ... ots-leaked

On the other hand, it sounds like more "let's change it up instead of polishing it into a masterpiece" bullshet. I won't be getting excited unless the marketing is promising to be the game we've always wanted instead of "hey look at all these crazy new ideas". From's crazy new ideas tend to be pretty disappointing in execution.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Tsmp » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:58 pm

plaintomato wrote:
Astro_Train wrote:looks like it is legit... we will know when E3 gets here... and as long as Miyezaki is directing bring it on... I hope some glory is restored as Dark Souls 2 was a bit of let down for me.

IMO Bloodborne is the worst in the series by far. Which is not to say I don't like it, so there's that.
Tsmp wrote:So, an anonymous person who knows of VG247 told them Namco will announce Dark Souls 3 at E3. Their reasoning for this is that Shuhei Yoshida recently announced an expansion for Bloodborne. They say they've reached out to Namco for a comment, but haven't received a response.

Forgive me if I find this highly dubious.

I forgive you. But it's looking pretty legit. http://gematsu.com/2015/06/dark-souls-i ... ots-leaked

On the other hand, it sounds like more "let's change it up instead of polishing it into a masterpiece" bullshet. I won't be getting excited unless the marketing is promising to be the game we've always wanted instead of "hey look at all these crazy new ideas". From's crazy new ideas tend to be pretty disappointing in execution.

It also sounds like they're trying to do more with the lore. We've known bonfires were made of and fueled by the bones of hollows since Dark Souls 1, but here they're talking about actually dragging undead corpses around and turning them into bonfires. It's something that was always theoretically possible in the story, but now they're actually using it.

This could either end up being very immersive, or else very clunky. Though, enough immersion can make any clunkiness easy to ignore and would provide more insight into how the world works. I wouldn't mind, so long as movement controls fluidly and there isn't a bleeding dodge stat again.

Also, about half of those screenshots look like they were lifted directly out of Yharnam and had an Undead stuck in the middle of them. I would laugh my ass off if some of these were actually screenshots for the Bloodborne DLC and some cheeky bastard just switched the main characters to mess with us.

Edit: Also also, they've been talking about "sword arts" for a long time now, haven't they? I remember at least one interview for Dark Souls 1 where they mentioned being able to attach special moves to weapons, and again for Dark Souls 2. But those were in the very early interviews, and obviously that feature was discarded.
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Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
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Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby nyyppa » Sat Jun 06, 2015 1:54 am

Well, this is interesting news. Just can't really be overly optimistic or hyped until I'll get an actual confirmation of Miyazaki directing the game though. It leaves me a bit worried that they already have been developing DkS3 when Bloodborne just came out a couple months ago. Like how have they managed to split the developement teams for the games and such. And has Miyazaki had time to fully direct 2 different games at the same time, or is it another "supervisor" role for him?

I mean DkS2 had some good things, mainly some improvements in the multiplayer connectivity etc. But the PvE side of the game felt really, really lacking for me. Sure the game is massive, having a shit ton of areas, enemies, armor, weapons etc. but you can't really replace quality with quantity.

The leaked material of the new game looks nice of course, but I recall DkS2 looking great in the vids and pics they gave us before releasing the game too. Well, time will tell.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Cam » Tue Jun 09, 2015 4:48 am

If it plays like Bloodborne but has the expansive content of DkSII, I think we have a winner.

Also, I sincerely hope the quickstep makes it to this supposed DkSIII. Even with equip burden, it can still work. It looks so much more natural and fluid than strictly rolling.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Rollo-9 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 2:08 pm

plaintomato wrote:http://www.vg247.com/2015/06/02/source-miyazakis-dark-souls-3-ready-for-e3-announcement/

Whether this turns out to be legit or not, all I can say is I hope they take their time and release a nigh-perfect masterpiece.

Four games in and everything has been really really good but always just shy of greatness, but after BB I feel like I've lost faith that they can deliver anything more than another mashup just changing sh*t up instead of really delivering on the amazing potential these games really have. Please be amazing.


If the release date is early 2016, I doubt we get the super polished version of souls alot of us want. Will buy it day 1 of course but if Miyazaki isn't at the helm 100% I'd be about 1/2 as interested.
From seems to like to release their games with a "warts and all" approach. None of the games released so far are perfect there's always been rough edges going back to DeS, that's ok with me though since what they do end up putting together in the end is unique and better than basically anything else around. I don't think they ever let a game sit around for an extra 6 months just to tweak it the way nintendo might.
BB is one of the best games I've played, it's right there with DeS & DkS as an all time favorite. I think the changes it brings are significant (active vs passive combat, switching wpn movesets on the fly), I think the lore and art are some of the best in the series too.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:34 pm

This is the beginning of the end.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Cam » Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:53 pm

Maybe, maybe not. Too soon to tell, really.

That's how I felt when I saw the announcement of Bloodborne, but it was actually a really solid game.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Jumilaattori » Sat Jun 13, 2015 4:35 pm

More souls the merrier, let´s just hope that B team handles PvP and chalices are left to bb dlc.

Cam wrote:Also, I sincerely hope the quickstep makes it to this supposed DkSIII. Even with equip burden, it can still work. It looks so much more natural and fluid than strictly rolling.
Also makes PvP a joke and dodging everything way too easy. I played dks2 after bb and dodging was actually hard. Let´s leave that to bb dlc too.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Cam » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:17 pm

Jumilaattori wrote:More souls the merrier, let´s just hope that B team handles PvP and chalices are left to bb dlc.

Cam wrote:Also, I sincerely hope the quickstep makes it to this supposed DkSIII. Even with equip burden, it can still work. It looks so much more natural and fluid than strictly rolling.
Also makes PvP a joke and dodging everything way too easy. I played dks2 after bb and dodging was actually hard. Let´s leave that to bb dlc too.

All I'm talking about is the animation of quickstepping. I don't mind if they slow it down, or decrease the invincibility frames. I think DkSII is in general hard to play after playing BB. It's a much easier transition to DkS or DS, imo.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Astro_Train » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:17 pm

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/dark-s ... 0-6428253/

guess it was legit... this doesn't show gameplay though

the first screen after "now only embers remain" is reminiscent of Demons Souls ... colorless fog screenshot. :D
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby plaintomato » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:15 pm

Cam wrote:
Jumilaattori wrote:More souls the merrier, let´s just hope that B team handles PvP and chalices are left to bb dlc.
Cam wrote:Also, I sincerely hope the quickstep makes it to this supposed DkSIII. Even with equip burden, it can still work. It looks so much more natural and fluid than strictly rolling.
Also makes PvP a joke and dodging everything way too easy. I played dks2 after bb and dodging was actually hard. Let´s leave that to bb dlc too.

All I'm talking about is the animation of quickstepping. I don't mind if they slow it down, or decrease the invincibility frames. I think DkSII is in general hard to play after playing BB. It's a much easier transition to DkS or DS, imo.

BB is worst in series. Quick stepping is broken, as are risk-free parries at range. It's all good for PVE, but the complexities of combat are gone and it just boils down to button mashing and grinding ridiculous gems for the long game.

It could work. Gems could just be for infusion. Quick stepping could have zero i-frames and leave you stunned if you get hit or open you to BS or something anything. Guns could leave you open. Or any such "fixes" could just introduce new problems. This is what I'm talking about when I complain that every From game is like a new test-case where they just try out new ideas instead of really nailing down what works and polishing it up.

Anyway, I'll buy DkS3 on day 1, but for the first time my expectations are firmly in check. For the first time, I fully expect mediocrity and disappointment.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby nyyppa » Thu Jun 18, 2015 10:54 am

This is probably something worth mentioning:

http://www.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/comm ... confirmed/

So at least in the E3 gameplay demo of DkS3, the mechanics of the game have been very similar to DkS1's, which could be a disappointment to some people. But time will tell what it will be like, I guess not everyone can be pleased anyway.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby DidoRumbus » Thu Jun 18, 2015 6:46 pm

nyyppa wrote:This is probably something worth mentioning:

http://www.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/comm ... confirmed/

So at least in the E3 gameplay demo of DkS3, the mechanics of the game have been very similar to DkS1's, which could be a disappointment to some people. But time will tell what it will be like, I guess not everyone can be pleased anyway.

This is great news IMO, I enjoyed the hell out of DkS1 backstabs and all. Obviously they won't be reverting completely to old mechanics, lessons learned and all that. Sword arts sound interesting. At least we won't have minute-long parry windows or bullet spam :lol:
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Cam » Thu Jun 18, 2015 9:38 pm

plaintomato wrote:BB is worst in series. Quick stepping is broken, as are risk-free parries at range. It's all good for PVE, but the complexities of combat are gone and it just boils down to button mashing and grinding ridiculous gems for the long game.

It could work. Gems could just be for infusion. Quick stepping could have zero i-frames and leave you stunned if you get hit or open you to BS or something anything. Guns could leave you open. Or any such "fixes" could just introduce new problems. This is what I'm talking about when I complain that every From game is like a new test-case where they just try out new ideas instead of really nailing down what works and polishing it up.

Anyway, I'll buy DkS3 on day 1, but for the first time my expectations are firmly in check. For the first time, I fully expect mediocrity and disappointment.

Quickstepping doesn't need to be reduced to zero i-frames, the animation just needs to be drawn out a tad, and I'm not sure how many i-frames there actually are, but perhaps they do need to be decreased a little bit. I've agreed with everyone who mentioned the idea that a firing a gun induces a mandatory reloading animation, leaving you open.

EDIT:
After reading the reddit page that Nyyppa posted, it sounds like DkS3 is going to feel a lot like Dark Souls, but a bit faster-paced. I guess this means they're going back to the rolling style of evasion, which honestly bums me out. But if it's going to feel like Dark Souls and nothing like Dark Souls II, then I suppose it's not all bad.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Jumilaattori » Thu Jun 18, 2015 11:40 pm

30 fps feels weird. Fixing the broken mess we know as dks1 with dks2 changes restored my faith.

As long as poise bs doesen´t return and movesets and weapons are viable I think it´ll be solid PvP wise.

Problem with dks was that it evolved around backstabs. Weapons and movesets were so bad that you could almost say rendered as useless.

Funny in that link how he wrote: "dks1 gaxe moveset!!!!!!" What´s the gag?
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Cam » Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:24 am

Eh... Dark Souls might be more broken than Dark Souls II, but I still think it's more fun. Dark Souls II is just too clunky to be enjoyable for me, even if it's improved in a lot of ways. I'm very happy that Dark Souls III is going to be the best of both worlds, that seems like the best choice in the end.

Jumi, I daresay you could pick up DkS again, in the meantime. It's quite rewarding if you can learn to deal with backstabs and poise. :)
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Sat Jun 20, 2015 7:35 pm

Cam wrote: Dark Souls III is going to be the best of both worlds, that seems like the best choice in the end.


After actually seeing what was presented at E3 i feel a bit better about the quickly released sequel, going off the regressions they made in Bloodborne and Dark Souls II i'll just keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Cam » Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:19 pm

I'm not understanding the Bloodborne contempt. It basically addressed everything people complained about after Dark Souls II and made it more DS-like in essence while still presenting fresh ideas and mechanics. What could be the problem with that?
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Jumilaattori » Sun Jun 21, 2015 2:48 am

Cam wrote:Eh... Dark Souls might be more broken than Dark Souls II, but I still think it's more fun. Dark Souls II is just too clunky to be enjoyable for me, even if it's improved in a lot of ways. I'm very happy that Dark Souls III is going to be the best of both worlds, that seems like the best choice in the end.

Jumi, I daresay you could pick up DkS again, in the meantime. It's quite rewarding if you can learn to deal with backstabs and poise. :)


That´s why restaurants have menus. It is clunky, bright side is that it has commitment to moves. Attacks leave you open and spacing and timing is important. Lots of viable setups, good movesets and well made backstab game sure sounds solid with aggro being viable.

If I´d knew how to handle stabs and poise in 1, would it make fights not to evolve around stabs and would it make weapons and movesets viable for attacking?

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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Sun Jun 21, 2015 3:03 am

Cam wrote:I'm not understanding the Bloodborne contempt. It basically addressed everything people complained about after Dark Souls II and made it more DS-like in essence while still presenting fresh ideas and mechanics. What could be the problem with that?


So basically it's not contempt, Bloodborne is a good game for sure, but the final product made any sort of real competitive PvP impossible to setup and the combat is extremely simplistic. It has plenty of fresh ideas and it is a fun game, just lacks souls level depth. But besides that? great game.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Cam » Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:05 pm

Jumilaattori wrote:That´s why restaurants have menus. It is clunky, bright side is that it has commitment to moves. Attacks leave you open and spacing and timing is important. Lots of viable setups, good movesets and well made backstab game sure sounds solid with aggro being viable.

If I´d knew how to handle stabs and poise in 1, would it make fights not to evolve around stabs and would it make weapons and movesets viable for attacking?

:)

Dark Souls II becomes really simple and repetitive when you realize that it's a game of footsies. Sure, getting efficient at it is arguably hard, but no matter which weapon you're playing with, the process is painfully similar. Even with magic involved. At least, that's my opinion. I know you prefer DkSII.

Most of the really good players will rely on their moveset, but will incorporate backstabs when you're vulnerable. When someone has massive poise and a fast weapon, they're usually pretty predictable and thus you can parry them. When someone relies on backstabs, they become predictable and you can punish them. There are a lot of movesets that are hard to use, but with good fundamentals, are still viable.

Magicisoverrated wrote:So basically it's not contempt, Bloodborne is a good game for sure, but the final product made any sort of real competitive PvP impossible to setup and the combat is extremely simplistic. It has plenty of fresh ideas and it is a fun game, just lacks souls level depth. But besides that? great game.

Fair enough, I misunderstood. Tomato mentioned it being the worst in the series and I've read a few comments on Youtube of people saying it's a big disappointment, so I was noticing a pattern.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Sun Jun 21, 2015 12:34 pm

Cam wrote:
Fair enough, I misunderstood. Tomato mentioned it being the worst in the series and I've read a few comments on Youtube of people saying it's a big disappointment, so I was noticing a pattern.


Have to look at it this way. Worst game in a great series is still a good game, what people judge these games on is their PvP not the core gameplay, and Bloodborne probably does have the worst PvP lettuce be cereal.
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Tsmp » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:12 am

There is actually a way to reliably set up competitive PvP in Bloodborne, but it requires spending a bit of time generating chalice dungeons until you get an ideal one, preferably one with a nice, clear arena on the first floor. Once you have one however, you can simply follow these steps to arrange competitive events:

1. Create a Sinister Root Dungeon with the Sinister Bell rite enabled. Try to get one with a nice, open arena free of any clutter. The Sinister Lower Pthumerian dungeon would probably be ideal for this since it's relatively easy to get and the materials for it can simply be bought with blood echoes and need not be farmed.

2. Share the dungeon and set it to "Closed". This will enable multiplayer in the dungeon but prevent random people from invading or being summoned by the Short Ritual Root Chalice and spoiling your fun.

3. Post the dungeon glyph here and announce a fight club or PvP event. Passwords are not necessary since the dungeon is already set to Closed and they would enable overleveled shenanigans anyways.

4. The host should be invadable and able to summon players of the target level, and be equipped with the Corruption (Vileblood) Oath rune. The host will ring a Sinister Resonant Bell, cancel it with the Silencing Blank, then ring the Beckoning Bell. This will generate a second Bell Maiden in addition to the one already present in Sinister rite dungeons, allowing the place to be invaded by two red players instead of just one. Ringing the Beckoning bell afterwards does not cause the second Bell Maiden to leave, and allows the host to summon two blue phantoms, two purple phantoms, or one blue and one purple phantom in addition to the double invaders. Players who do not intend to host invaders are advised to kill the Bell Maidens in their dungeons or defeat the boss. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES KILL THE BELL MAIDENS IN THE HOST'S WORLD. The one that appears after ringing your Sinister Bell can respawn, but the one that starts there will not ever respawn if killed and the dungeon will have to be duplicated (by searching for it by glyph) in order to bring her back.

5. Note that unlike in previous games, red phantoms are not hostile to each other and can only attack blue or purple phantoms, or the host. Likewise, purple phantoms cannot attack each other and can only attack red or blue phantoms, or the host. Blue phantoms can only attack red or purple phantoms, and not each other or the host.

6. By wearing the Corruption (Vileblood) Oath rune, the host can summon players wearing the Radiance (Executioner) Oath rune as purple phantoms, and if the host has invaded before then they can summon Hunter (Hunter of Hunters) Oath rune players as purples ~30% of the time or as blues ~70% of the time. In this way and with the second Bell Maiden, fights can be arranged between one red and either one blue or one purple as a 1v1 duel, between two reds and two blues or two reds and two purples as a 2v2 team battle, or between one red, one blue, and one purple as a 1v1v1 free for all.

It would take a bit of work to produce the ideal dungeon, but once done you have an arena that can be used again and again for... well, the previously mentioned stuff. Duels, team battles, and three person free for alls. The only downside is that it would require a dedicated host, which to be honest is pretty standard for anyone who intends to stream their events or anyone who ever PvP'd in Demon's Souls.

EDIT: I'm going to make a new thread for this, as well.

EDIT2: No, I do not disagree that PvP in Bloodborne is simplistic. I enjoy it, but it lacks depth by virtue of lacking the sheer number of viable tactics available in the other games.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
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Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Mon Jun 22, 2015 1:55 am

Tsmp wrote:*snip*

It would take a bit of work to produce the ideal dungeon,

*snip*
.


reason it doesn't work, Bloodborne fight clubs are closed systems and numerous fight clubs are competing with each other for popularity, this is why it fails, that and just setting it up for a small group is ridiculous. What you posted there is actually well known. Bloodborne has excellent coop however...
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Tsmp » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:22 am

Magicisoverrated wrote:
Tsmp wrote:*snip*

It would take a bit of work to produce the ideal dungeon,

*snip*
.


reason it doesn't work, Bloodborne fight clubs are closed systems and numerous fight clubs are competing with each other for popularity, this is why it fails, that and just setting it up for a small group is ridiculous. What you posted there is actually well known. Bloodborne has excellent coop however...

Which merely dodges the point of my post.

It is possible to hold organized PvP events in Bloodborne. Yes, it would take a bit of time to create an acceptable dungeon, but once the dungeon is made it can be used again and again as needed. Which dungeons people are using or the popularity of said dungeons is entirely irrelevant in this case.

Also, I'm pretty sure that if I took the time to create (or steal) a good dungeon, waited until no other fight clubs were happening, then asked people if they wanted to fight in my dungeon, they probably wouldn't say no. And if they did, it would be to ask why I wasn't using one of the dungeons that was already created, in which case we'd just be doing the same thing but with a different glyph.
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: What what? Dark Souls 3 at E3?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Mon Jun 22, 2015 2:58 pm

Tsmp wrote:Which merely dodges the point of my post.

It is possible to hold organized PvP events in Bloodborne. Yes, it would take a bit of time to create an acceptable dungeon, but once the dungeon is made it can be used again and again as needed. Which dungeons people are using or the popularity of said dungeons is entirely irrelevant in this case.

Also, I'm pretty sure that if I took the time to create (or steal) a good dungeon, waited until no other fight clubs were happening, then asked people if they wanted to fight in my dungeon, they probably wouldn't say no. And if they did, it would be to ask why I wasn't using one of the dungeons that was already created, in which case we'd just be doing the same thing but with a different glyph.


No, of course it's possible to setup PvP on Bloodborne, it's just both impractical and unnecessarily obtuse, along with numerous other issues with the PvP mechanics itself easily makes the game the least popular souls to PvP on for a reason.

little side tangent here while we are on the topic of PvP....You can see the same downward trends miyazaki had on the Armored Core series, the first few games being great, mechs feeling great, PvP was solid and the combat had depth. By Armored Core V the combat was unrecognizable..you now have super fast small mechs that move like ninjas (Bloodborne) combat has little to no depth, very few gameplay vriations in mech styles. You can see all this same stuff happening in souls. It just seems to have worked better in Souls for the main audience, which is an interesting case study unto itself.
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