Patch 1.03 is live

General discussion of all things Bloodborne

Patch 1.03 is live

Postby bialy0021 » Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:09 am

http://www.jp.playstation.com/op/bloodb ... 4/103.html

Thank you for playing Bloodborne.
An update is available.

Main points of UPDATE 1.03
-Reduced loading times (approx. 5-15 seconds; may vary by circumstance)
-Fixed bug that left certain lifts and elevators inoperable
-Fixed bug that resulted in bosses becoming immobilized
-Fixed bug that left players unable to advance NPC events during multi-play
-When the PS4 is put into Rest Mode during online play, the game will now return to the main title screen upon resuming play
This will resolve matchmaking issues related to Suspend/Resume.
-Other various bug fixes

We will continue to make improvements to better the play experience.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby spacehamster » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:20 am

It's funny that they don't mention replacing the logo load screen with item info. Maybe it's just me, but that makes a huge difference.

I still think they need to patch in a menu at the lamps that lets you either warp to the Hunter's Dream, to another lamp or to reawaken right there. I don't care if it makes sense lore wise, I hated going through the Nexus all the time in Demon's Souls, and I hate it here.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Zubroska40 » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:32 am

Very good patch.

Funny they don't explain than my Level 109 can now invade a level 73...

What is the new matchmaking system? +/- 50% of my level? :?

Anyway, i ve a lot of fun to find easily peeps for PvP now.


I ve an idea for a futur patch :

That would be wonderful if the chest and chalices donjons could be split between our various characters after the level 100.
It s stupid to farm gems/ weapon for all ours PvP builds.
It would prevent low level invading with OP gems and of course determines a level cap for PvP. 8-)


What do you think about that guys?
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Vumsy » Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:03 pm

Plowing through the story chalices doesn't take that long if you ask me. And Bloodborne isn't designed around our meta, and it shouldn't be either. Recomnended SL is one thing, neccersary SL is something else.
Also (with some luck) you can unlock pthumeru ihyll chalice without beating amygdala for the Loran chalice.
Go through hintertomb to get makeshift altar, pray to god some fellow hunters need help at Ailing Loran, farm the bastards there and get ihyll chalice.

EDIT: From a design perspective I disagree, from a player perspective I wouldn't mind.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Thaumogenesis » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:28 am

I finished Pthumeru and Hintertomb and I'm bored as fuck. The chalice dungeons are boring. They need to improve that. No intention of ever doing these again on another toon.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Jumilaattori » Sun Apr 26, 2015 9:40 am

Thaumogenesis wrote:I finished Pthumeru and Hintertomb and I'm bored as fuck. The chalice dungeons are boring. They need to improve that. No intention of ever doing these again on another toon.
ihyll and Loran are fun, most likely iz too.

Vumsy wrote:Also (with some luck) you can unlock pthumeru ihyll chalice without beating amygdala for the Loran chalice.
Go through hintertomb to get makeshift altar, pray to god some fellow hunters need help at Ailing Loran, farm the bastards there and get ihyll chalice.
I vaded, 1st match and I got rotted ihyll xD As I don´t have a clue how the chalises work, I made cursed and spent 1.5h at amygdala, lost 1.5m echoes cause it jumped and 1hko me and the bastard is still alive. Does the dungeon end after that and does it give me a chalice which is on my makeshift atm?
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Zubroska40 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:41 pm

Vumsy :

How much time do u need to do all chalices donjons, get your 3 blood rocks, get the uncanny/lost weapons you need for your build (if normal version is not good), get the clockwise rune 15% and the anti-clockwise rune 20%, and get the gems you need for your build?

The PvE time in chalice donjons to make a build for a PvP player is too long on this game. It s boring and it s not good for build variety in PvP.

That s the point.

After 1 month on DkS1 and 2 i had at least 6 or 10 PvP builds. I ve 2 PvP builds on BB lol!

I ask the question : Today :

Who has 6 builds with 5/6 weapons +10, all weapons with the best gems of the game, and the PvP runes?

I m certain i ve the response : NOBODY. Because It takes ages on this game.

We need a common chest between our different characters in the hunter dreams IMO.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Jumilaattori » Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:01 pm

You can just speedrun ng++ to get 3 rocks. You don´t need best gems to pvp, that´s for tryhards. Getting best gems should be fun, mixing pvp and pve.

Why would you use 2 stamina runes? Getting 15% rune takes like an hour?

dks1 had bb glitch.dks2 had mm. :(

If you need all the best runes and gems to pvp, work for them. A grind like this has been missing from the series, dks2 was close but its such a long game that its almost easier to just respec.

Common chest will never happen and this game has 2-3 weapons per build. Like quality has silver sword, stake driver and cannon. Don´t fret tho, I´m sure some clown goes and does mm soon and ruins the game.

I´ll speedrun ng++ to bloodrock 2morrow, I´ll let you know how long it took.

Oh and beast claw and uncanny beast claw are identical in my game. As are chikage and lost chikage. Do they get 10 more AR as +10 or what´s the catch?
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby bialy0021 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:57 pm

different versions of weapons have different gem slots, thats it.

as for grind - its not really suited for it. chalices can be fun, true. tho most of the time theyre just boring. the 'proper' way of unlocking every chalice to get the best items is pretty long and tedious.
do you need them? nah. then again you dont need +10 weapons either.
souls werent loot games, at least not for me. in that regard bb is way behind titles like diablo, borderlands or destiny to name a few available on the console. still, i can see why they added them.

shared loot across account wont help much (not that i think theyll ever add it) cos making silly strong stuff more accessible doesnt solve the issue of... well, having silly strong stuff in the first place.
arena w/ a selection of gems/runes? not happening either but you get the picture.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Zubroska40 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:36 pm

Bialy and Jumi.

I agree with you.

With my Friends we do PvP with + 6 weapons (no farm^^) and no gems. (no heal so)

But what s about random PvP?

U need best gems, especially against bone marrow bloodtinge build with evelyn/ chikage (70% of the players i meet), which actually hit harder (500 damages per 2 handed R1) than a Logarius' wheel with 50 strength (400 damages per 2 handed R1) and the best physical gems (27,2 %)...

Bone marrow evelyn can do 900 damages with gems (+ 31% blood attack... lol), 300 damages without bone marrow), the shotgun can kill 1300 HP in 3 bullets without bone marrow. (3 elemental strange gems with + 100 fire/thunder and 50 bloodtinge)

It s obviously it will be the next PvP nerf. I really love the chikage moove set, but it s really too OP atm.

Spells do too low damages in PvP IMO. I hope they will increase their damages TBH.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby bialy0021 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:12 pm

as if from cared about pvp :p

also, kats were always gay in souls, what did you expect? xD

anyway, my point was: its not a loot game and if it is its a rather poor one. one should not be forced to do all that crap to play the game as one wants to (pvp in this case). so yh, we're pretty much in agreement here :)
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Zubroska40 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:33 pm

7 patchs for PvP on DkS1, 5 patchs on DkS2.

don't be so hard with FS. ^^

They are bad to do a balanced game, but they try to do their best lol^^
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby bialy0021 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:44 pm

ironically only the one that got the least amount of patches (1?) has good pvp xD

nah, unlike dks and dks2 i actually like bb.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Zubroska40 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:09 pm

Haha^^

I m in love with DeS PvP, love DkS1 PvP too but it s so easy to cheese it IMO, i only like 3 types of weapons on DkS2 and i hate the netcode and the slow of the game.

BB is really fun, i love this PvP too^^

hyperarmor FTW ;)

Funny to block bone marrow bullets and deals damages with the ludwig or hammer 8-) I got some hatemails like this. xD
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Jumilaattori » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:20 am

b, diablo has nothing else than loot hunt and you hunt those same items for same slots :)
Imo early dungeons were boring but later dungeons and bosses are fun.

zub, dks1 had 1 patch which didn´t really change anything, ninja tanks to monkey roll.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby plaintomato » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:59 am

Vumsy wrote:Also (with some luck) you can unlock pthumeru ihyll chalice without beating amygdala for the Loran chalice.

Does killing Amygdala get rid of the bell maiden too? In other words, can you kill Amygdala and still keep the bell maiden auto-summoning invaders in Nightmare Frontier? Probably not but...?

Edit: Yeah, got home and checked and the sinister woman is gone even though I've never killed her. As expected I guess, since that's every Souls game ever, but still too bad.

Anyway, don't get this:
bialy0021 wrote:ironically only the one that got the least amount of patches (1?) has good pvp xD

nah, unlike dks and dks2 i actually like bb.

They're all great in different ways. I keep them all since they play so differently. Even though DeS is pretty much a graveyard. For all the talk about it having the only good PVP, the rest of the world seems to have forgotten it.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby rkzhao » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:52 pm

plaintomato wrote:Anyway, don't get this:
bialy0021 wrote:ironically only the one that got the least amount of patches (1?) has good pvp xD

nah, unlike dks and dks2 i actually like bb.

They're all great in different ways. I keep them all since they play so differently. Even though DeS is pretty much a graveyard. For all the talk about it having the only good PVP, the rest of the world seems to have forgotten it.


This is something that we can go on for pages about.

I'll admit, part of it is nostalgia from the old tards like us. DeS certainly still had it's share of broken stuff and it took time for things to get discovered by the community. Overall though, the mechanics balance each other out well and from my biased perspective, DeS had the deepest combat in part due to all the various exploits and glitches. Things like pivot casting and spell fizzling added a new layer to mages and mage hybrids. Pushlock actually added some variety to just r1 spamming stunlocks. Stunlock escape help balance out things like pushlock. No damage BS was actually interesting for oki situations and chain BSing was part of that mind game. SC adds some balance to high single hit damage and also helps balance out healing. Hyper armor on certain moves allowed for some situational tactical attacks and made the heavier weapons more practical to use straight up instead of only for BS and parry fishing.

Still, people that tried DeS later on just didn't have many incentives to stick around. The game being mostly dead when DkS came out certainly didn't help, especially since it was a bit of a cult hit to begin with. There will always be more players on the newer more mainstream games. It's hard to stick with a game when you can't find matches consistently, regardless of whether it has better pvp mechanics or not.

A lot of us have said DeS was good because of luck rather than by design since it was a lot of the bugs and exploits that made the game interesting. It's also why I don't expect FROM to design good souls PvP in a game anytime soon. All of these games were designed more for PvE. The PvP and even the online overall was more of a tacked on after thought.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby bialy0021 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:54 am

Jumilaattori wrote:b, diablo has nothing else than loot hunt and you hunt those same items for same slots :)
Imo early dungeons were boring but later dungeons and bosses are fun.

diablo is a game based around loot so no wonder. i wouldnt bash diablo tho cos quite frankly atm its pretty awesome.
actually, you can say exactly the same about bb, except loot is very limited. :P

like i said, chalices can be fun but not when youre doing the same ones for 3rd time+. they take some time to finish, unless youre just running through em (i usually dont remember the layout/lever location tho) but in this case youre prolly gonna end up a bit short on materials to make next one (especially that cursed/fetid/rotten depth5 root).

grind is a grind. well designed grind however... rng on every piece of gear, ability to reroll, sharding -> crafting, blood something -> lottery etc. theres always some incentive and that feeling of progression.
in bb you get weapon variant you want, runes you want and from that point its just gem farm (which usually is 1st boss farming in same chalice opened on every altar, rinse repeat?).
dont get me wrong, bb is very good, it has great story pve but from is no blizz.
plaintomato wrote:They're all great in different ways. I keep them all since they play so differently. Even though DeS is pretty much a graveyard. For all the talk about it having the only good PVP, the rest of the world seems to have forgotten it.

when it comes to pvp? no, theyre not.
the one advantage dark souls 1/2 have is somewhat organized (poorly but still) - arena(s). thats it. rk pretty much summed it up.
the fact that theres not many ppl playing doesnt mean its not the best one in 'the series' as far as actual combat in pvp is concerned. it is, by far. even garg, the ultimate dks2 lover, admits it.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Jumilaattori » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:43 pm

bialy0021 wrote:but from is no blizz.
Thank god. Starting from nothing, it takes 12h to clear gr35, which is like 5 steps above max difficulty T6. That´s on hardcore. A week and you are fully geared. Then it comes down to slightly improving those same items in your slots. Hoping that you win in a lottery and find that ancient BiS weapon for your class with a good roll. T6 is so boring and mindless that its unplayable. To do grifts, you need to do trials which is just tedious. To rank high on leaderboards you need to farm those tedious trials, like 4h per day and no you can´t solo, party is required for progress. Then you go solo those high grifts and you need favourable rng, pylons,mobs,density,boss and whatnot. You got like 5% chance to win. Mostly it is enter,exit,leave,resume. And still no PvP.

D3 in a nutshell, well everything that d3 offers. Fuck blizzard :)
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby plaintomato » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:20 pm

bialy0021 wrote:
plaintomato wrote:They're all great in different ways. I keep them all since they play so differently. Even though DeS is pretty much a graveyard. For all the talk about it having the only good PVP, the rest of the world seems to have forgotten it.

when it comes to pvp? no, theyre not.
the one advantage dark souls 1/2 have is somewhat organized (poorly but still) - arena(s). thats it. rk pretty much summed it up.
the fact that theres not many ppl playing doesnt mean its not the best one in 'the series' as far as actual combat in pvp is concerned. it is, by far. even garg, the ultimate dks2 lover, admits it.

Oh I know, I know, I've heard it all before here. Anyone who disagrees is just stupid and this is the way it is MutherFuker facts aren't up for debate. My mistake really, I knew that comment was against the secret forum rules before I made it. No need to derail the thread with a rehash topic.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby rkzhao » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:00 pm

plaintomato wrote:Oh I know, I know, I've heard it all before here. Anyone who disagrees is just stupid and this is the way it is MutherFuker facts aren't up for debate. My mistake really, I knew that comment was against the secret forum rules before I made it. No need to derail the thread with a rehash topic.


I guess I haven't been as active in the past few months but I'm surprised to see that kind of response when it comes to this topic. I'm not surprised that this has been discussed many times before but I would have expected the discussions to be relatively open minded. Everyone's mellowed out a lot in the past several years. Hell, even SSaint has matured enough to be a half decent mod ;).

I guess I find this topic to be more worth discussing than the 1.03 patch at this point but maybe that's just me.

Or maybe the discussion should lean towards wish lists for future patches. Unfortunately though, I highly doubt FROM would or could make any mechanic changes so future patches would be more about more buggy things like arcane rifle spear. There's not that much to discuss there for me, cause well, bugs should be fixed.

I would enjoy a discussion about a wishlist for mechanics and designs in future Souls games but I'm not sure if there is enough interest here for that to turn into a worthwhile discussion. At the same time, I don't want to deal with the throngs of filthy casuals on reddit or gfaqs or whatever :P.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby plaintomato » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:34 pm

IMO, DeS was, oddly since it was first, the only game without a glaring flaw to tarnish it. DkS1 had that tedious p2p matchmaking that meant you spent as much time waiting as fighting, DkS2 had Soul Memory omg whose idea was that, and BB has a pretty limited invasion system please Lord bless us with arena DLC. Not that I've had enough time with BB to really decide where it falls in the rankings for me, but I'm pretty sure I also think the OP chalice gems might be a problem, not sure yet.

But those issues aside, just the games and pvp on their own merits, DkS1 was best in series IMO and the variety is just a different kind than DeS. I'd say DkS1 had more variety than DeS, more different and viable builds, weapons, spells and tactics. It had a better arena than DkS2, with options for 2x2 or 4x free-for-all, with proper match-making and not segregated by Covenant or NG+. The weapons also had more unique movesets instead of so many reskins with the same moves like DkS2.

(I'm not sure where I am on the weapon selection of BB - it's pretty limited, but it's like they took all the best weapons and movesets and combined them in all the best ways to where there are no bad weapons. It's obvious in the weapon designs that From had three games of experience behind them, so it's kind of hard to complain about fewer weapons.)

Aside from the open cheating in DkS1, the main complaint I ever hear about DkS1 is the backstab mechanics and abuse. I just don't think it was as bad as some say. I was probably average at BS's, but I guess I must have been top-tier at avoiding BS's because I never really saw the problem.

I get the love for DeS, but I'd rank it at number 2 in the series. Based on W/L I'd put my skill level in all three Souls games at about the 80th percentile, so I was never married to my success in one game over another. Maybe the unbeatable gods of DeS had a little trouble moving on?

But when was the last time 4 games in a row like this that played so good and so differently? For all the frustrating design choices they make, From is freakin' amazing and each game has its pros and cons; DeS just isn't the undisputed champ people make it out to be.

Anyway, that's my unacceptable opinion supported by filthy lies.

-----

As far as a wishlist, those get long yeah? But the main thing I want is level based matching in an arena (which DeS didn't have), that actually works (unlike DkS1's), isn't segregated (like DkS2's), offers up some variety in terms of terrain and player counts, and is free so that it doesn't splinter the player base.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Cam » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:49 pm

For the wishlist, I want more metallic forms of attire. The Cainhurst set is cool 'n all, but it's the only fully platemail set in the game. Surely they can fit in an antique 1650's set of medieval armor in, just before the mass-production of flintlocks started making platemail obsolete, or some of the fancy "royalty" suits of armor that was just for show during the late 17th century. Whatever the case, I want some metal.

Second would be more blood gem effects. As much as I love Diablo II, I'm thinking full Bloodborne when I say that I'd like blood gems with a bigger variety of modifiers. Such as life stolen per hit, regen, etc. It's something I think could be taken a step further, and it'd only get more interesting.

EDIT:
Oh, and I think there should be a patch that adjusts the Kirkhammer's STR scaling from A to S, even at the cost of it's E SKL scaling. Because it is, for all intents and purposes, a pure strength weapon.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby rkzhao » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:48 pm

plaintomato wrote:IMO, DeS was, oddly since it was first, the only game without a glaring flaw to tarnish it. DkS1 had that tedious p2p matchmaking that meant you spent as much time waiting as fighting, DkS2 had Soul Memory omg whose idea was that, and BB has a pretty limited invasion system please Lord bless us with arena DLC. Not that I've had enough time with BB to really decide where it falls in the rankings for me, but I'm pretty sure I also think the OP chalice gems might be a problem, not sure yet.


I don't think it was odd for the first game to not have a glaring flaw. After all, there was nothing before it to compare against. The flaws in terms of matchmaking for DkS1 and 2 are only flaws because there was something before it that we liked better.

That is probably a contributing factor to people saying DeS was best. While the fundamentals are the same, the styles of PvP is different in all these games. As an overall package, I simply liked the balance and fluidity of DeS more. If I didn't have that as a comparison, I might not have been as harsh about DkS1 when that came out. If DkS1 hadn't been such a massive let down for me, I probably would have been more critical about the flaws in DkS2 and BB. It's just kind of how things work out.

Personally, I would rank DkS1 pvp as the lowest. My gripes with it can be pretty much all be linked to the poise mechanic.

I don't really have many bad things to say about DkS2, mainly because poise wasn't nearly as much of a factor. It just got boring for me really quick. If anything, the main complaints I have with DkS2 is on the PvE side for level and art design. It's the only one out of the games where I didn't even care to finish.

For BB, I am enjoying it for now but I'm somewhat expecting to grow bored of it similar to DkS2

Now before you go around insinuating that people dislike any of the games because they aren't good at them, you got to remember that for the best players, what made them good was solid fundamentals, which carries over to all of these games. A top player in any of these games would be at least good in the other ones. If anything, there's a larger population of mediocre players in these games now so it's harder to find many challenging matches skill wise.

---
Now for wishlists. More (better looking) metal armor would be great to have in the inevitable DLC and I'd almost expect it.

I've already mentioned several times that I wish the guns had a reload animation but I highly doubt that's something that can be changed with a DLC. I'll skip the (large) list of stuff on combat mechanics I have for what an ideal souls game would be for me.

I wouldn't be surprised to see an arena in the DLC but we'll have to see whether it's going to be good. Free is unlikely. In any case, a well done arena is something I think we've asked for seemingly forever now. I think I mentioned it even back before DkS1 but I would love to see an arena where weapons are "normalized". What I mean by that is have them be all count as +10 or whatnot while in the arena regardless of what you have them actually upgraded to. In the case of BB, have the gems also be normalized to give a constant bonus (ie all +% gems get +5%). That would alleviate the tedious farming needed for a even playing field in PvP dueling while still allowing farming to be reward PvE and invasions. Would also be a good way to balance out the ridiculous damage output from chalice gems.

It would also be nice for you to have a set number of consumables while in the arena so we don't have to worry about consolidating community "rules" or restocking every fight. Lets just say you will always start a match with 5 vials + however many from runes and full bullets regardless of your actual inventory. That to me would be extremely convenient and just shut people up about what they think "honour" dueling should be. These games have gotten widespread enough that community created rules just aren't as consistent anymore.

If FROM does implement a satisfactory arena environment for dueling in BB, that might be enough for me to finally buy a DLC for one of these games.

Oh one more thing. It would be great if you didn't have to go to the hunter's den to change up runes and gems. I'm mostly thinking of this more on the blood gem side for switching weapon load outs than on runes but I'm just gonna lump them together. If there is an arena, somehow allowing you to swap stuff around before entering without needing additional loading screens would be nice. Whether that's as simple as just making the arena accessible from the hunter's den or actually letting you swap runes and gems in other places I don't really care.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby plaintomato » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:54 am

rkzhao wrote:I don't think it was odd for the first game to not have a glaring flaw. After all, there was nothing before it to compare against.

Still no glaring flaw in retrospect though, which is pretty impressive. I completely get the DeS love. I don't get the lack of respect for DkS. I think DkS was better like I think my favorite song is better than my second favorite song, I just find it annoying when people act like they can only dance to one beat.
rkzhao wrote:Personally, I would rank DkS1 pvp as the lowest. My gripes with it can be pretty much all be linked to the poise mechanic.

I can understand that, particlarly pre-patch. I thought the patches got it good enough though. Only cheaters and waiting for connections actually impacted my fun.
rkzhao wrote:I don't really have many bad things to say about DkS2, mainly because poise wasn't nearly as much of a factor. It just got boring for me really quick. If anything, the main complaints I have with DkS2 is on the PvE side for level and art design. It's the only one out of the games where I didn't even care to finish.

For BB, I am enjoying it for now but I'm somewhat expecting to grow bored of it similar to DkS2

I'm thinking BB is going to meet your expectation for becoming boring. Personally, I think the main game is great and won't get boring. But the Chalice Dungeons, holy crap what a grind, and a neccesary grind if you want to gem up for even PVP.

At first I thought the Chalice Dungeons were a really cool way to extend the PVE. And they are. But I'm thinking they are going to be the glaring flaw when it comes to PVP. Grinding the Chalices on one character is fine, fun and challenging. As soon as you start the second grind you realize - WTF? How many times will I be willing to do this?

The storage box needs to be shared between characters, gems are ruining the fun. Or I may end up just grinding the gems in Nightmare of Mensis and ignoring the dungeons, maybe that's the solution. NG++ x10 sounds better to me than Chalice Dungeons x10.
rkzhao wrote:Now before you go around insinuating that people dislike any of the games because they aren't good at them, you got to remember that for the best players, what made them good was solid fundamentals, which carries over to all of these games. A top player in any of these games would be at least good in the other ones.

Not what I meant, I try not to be a douchebag (except to Cam 'cause he gets really entertaining when he's peeved, sadly I like his post above so no opportunities there). The players that would always beat me in DeS are the same ones that still beat me since there's a limit to how granular I'm willing to get with the precision skills. Just saying there is a bigger pool of top players now, along with more trolls, less honor (regardless of what that means to anyone individually), and a watered down sense of community - which all adds up to more salty losses whether you're good or not.
rkzhao wrote:an arena where weapons are "normalized"...alleviate the tedious farming needed for a even playing field in PvP dueling while still allowing farming to be reward PvE and invasions...have a set number of consumables while in the arena so we don't have to worry about consolidating community "rules" or restocking...shut people up about what they think "honour" dueling should be

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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Cam » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:00 am

rkzhao wrote:I think I mentioned it even back before DkS1 but I would love to see an arena where weapons are "normalized". What I mean by that is have them be all count as +10 or whatnot while in the arena regardless of what you have them actually upgraded to. In the case of BB, have the gems also be normalized to give a constant bonus (ie all +% gems get +5%). That would alleviate the tedious farming needed for a even playing field in PvP dueling while still allowing farming to be reward PvE and invasions. Would also be a good way to balance out the ridiculous damage output from chalice gems.
Don't you think the game would be a bit.. Boring, if everyone was even gear-wise? If all blood gems grant static bonuses in this hypothetical arena, that'd completely defeat the purpose of grinding for those gems in the first place, for PvP purposes.

I may be alone in this, but I don't prefer a completely even playing field. I like the idea that I can push my character depending on how hard I grind for it. It's an optional perk achievement. If I'm not up to grinding for it, the game is still skill-based enough to outplay those with better gems.

rkzhao wrote:It would also be nice for you to have a set number of consumables while in the arena so we don't have to worry about consolidating community "rules" or restocking every fight. Lets just say you will always start a match with 5 vials + however many from runes and full bullets regardless of your actual inventory. That to me would be extremely convenient and just shut people up about what they think "honour" dueling should be. These games have gotten widespread enough that community created rules just aren't as consistent anymore.
I like this idea, as long as the rules aren't too ridiculous or imposing. Like restricting the use of certain items or weapons because nobody wants to learn how to counter it.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby rkzhao » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:45 am

Cam wrote:Don't you think the game would be a bit.. Boring, if everyone was even gear-wise? If all blood gems grant static bonuses in this hypothetical arena, that'd completely defeat the purpose of grinding for those gems in the first place, for PvP purposes.

I may be alone in this, but I don't prefer a completely even playing field. I like the idea that I can push my character depending on how hard I grind for it. It's an optional perk achievement. If I'm not up to grinding for it, the game is still skill-based enough to outplay those with better gems.


For a dueling focused competitive environment though, a somewhat level playing field matters. People already grind for the "best" pvp gear anyways in these games. The whole point is to remove the need to grind (or dupe, mm, whatever) for dueling. You don't really lose any build variety or gem selection if the equipment is the only thing that's normalized. I guess you would lose the option of handicapping yourself with weaker gems but that's about it.

Grinding for those chalice gems is also not completely wasted. You still get that bonus for PvE and invasion PvP. It just removes grind/luck based advantages from equipment in a dueling arena.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Cam » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:06 am

rkzhao wrote:For a dueling focused competitive environment though, a somewhat level playing field matters. People already grind for the "best" pvp gear anyways in these games. The whole point is to remove the need to grind (or dupe, mm, whatever) for dueling. You don't really lose any build variety or gem selection if the equipment is the only thing that's normalized. I guess you would lose the option of handicapping yourself with weaker gems but that's about it.

Grinding for those chalice gems is also not completely wasted. You still get that bonus for PvE and invasion PvP. It just removes grind/luck based advantages from equipment in a dueling arena.

I know it's a practical, rational, good idea. I just feel copacetic with gems as they are, aside from the fact that I want more variety modifiers for them. I don't think I'd mind an equalized arena if there existed a semblance of PvP traffic outside of it. What little we currently have would surely vanish if there was a reliable arena.

EDIT:
I neglected to mention that the depth 5 dungeons with all the offerings for better drops, would be insanely difficult to clear at anything below level 120, much less continuously grind. I have 760 AR with my KH, it takes like 4 hits to kill a depth 5 werewolf beast with 3400ish HP. That's like a NG boss.

Then again, no player has 3400 HP, so maybe you're right about "ridiculous damage output" from chalice gems. I dunno, man.
Last edited by Cam on Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Jumilaattori » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:26 am

plaintomato wrote: DkS1 was best in series IMO and the variety is just a different kind than DeS. I'd say DkS1 had more variety than DeS, more different and viable builds, weapons, spells and tactics.
Builds were low end, 40 mainstat and gouge vit. Patch changed it to gouge end/ flip to monkey roll. A build like dagger build with fb-ignite and to beat shield stoc was something, dks1 had nothing like that. Weapons were R1 only, most animations were so slow that whole weapons were not viable and almost all r2 moves were useless Chaos blade, MLGS/Clay and mindless curved sword imo that´s not more weapons. Magic in des, to combo spells and melee, fb-ignite and pivot casting was great. Dks1 spells were not viable in pvp, though I loved to play with them, still nothing like des.

More different tactics :lol:

1.Remember to eat your grass
2.Backpedal by doing a small circle
3.Never attack first
4.Think about how to get your next stab

Advanced tactics

1. Hit air to provoke an opponent to atk -> flip stab his atk
2. Cast a spell to provoke an opponent to try stab you -> stab him instead

I never understood why ppl need grass thus infinite stamina in dks1?

Des had this thing called spacing and timing. You could interupt attacks, no poise bs. Dagger could beat claymore. All the mechanics (glitches) like escaping locks, negating stabs and whatnot. Being aggressive and trying to win was actually viable, not only viable but good.

I can´t argue which is best in your opinion but imo above are facts. I´m with rk, imo dks1 is worst in series.

BB is very simple, like dks1 but instead of backpedaling and stabbing only, its based on spacing and timing and being aggressive.

plaintomato wrote:Maybe the unbeatable gods of DeS had a little trouble moving on?
Midi put it well. Dks1 wasn´t the patch we were waiting. If you were average in des you were good in dks1 etc. For me it was simply gameplay. PvP was so dumbed down and like rk says, 1 step forward, 2 steps backwards, tho when it comes to pvp more like no steps forward, 3 steps bakwards hahaa. Players didn´t evolve, meta didn´t evolve.
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Re: Patch 1.03 is live

Postby Jumilaattori » Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:37 am

plaintomato wrote:At first I thought the Chalice Dungeons were a really cool way to extend the PVE. And they are. But I'm thinking they are going to be the glaring flaw when it comes to PVP. Grinding the Chalices on one character is fine, fun and challenging. As soon as you start the second grind you realize - WTF? How many times will I be willing to do this?
Yup. Do them with 1 toon and skip with alts.

This game needs an arena. PvP is too inconsistent atm. I almost feel like more of pve game with pve invasions. Thinking about getting dks2 for pvp :)

Btw dks2 should be judged post that major pvp patch.
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