Rip-off or Homage?

General discussion of all things Bloodborne

Rip-off or Homage?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:23 pm

Those of you who remember playing through Demon's Souls undoubtedly remember one of the more memorable bosses being Tower Knight. Easily one of the more difficult bosses for new players back in 2009 until stumbling upon a staircase (or on your first try by way of youtube tutorial) which lead up and allowed the player to deal with the pesky archers and spam soul arrow down upon Tower Knights dome.

Bloodborne does not have Soul Arrow, but it seems to have it's own version of the Tower Knight (albeit much less memorable and not nearly as difficult). The arena of The One Reborn is very nearly a direct re-skin of this boss fight from Demon's Souls. there are stairs leading up to the parapets where a bell maiden is waiting conveniently next to a ledge for you to kill to prevent them from shooting magical fire arrows at you. Even killing the boss felt somewhat similar, not entirely but attacking the bosses legs until it collapsed was giving me flashbacks.

To be honest I'm not too sure how i feel about it. It was nice for a little bit of nostalgia for long term fans of the series but as a result the boss felt unoriginal. How did this sit with everyone else? did you notice?
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Re: Rip-off or Homage?

Postby BertoSan » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:36 pm

I enjoyed this boss. It essentially combined an aspect of bosses from every souls game.

Tower Knight - The bell ringers up top adding to the fight
Quelaag - The spidery looking beast with AOE attack
Royal Rat Authority - Acid pools draining from mouth while being able to fight mostly by staying directly under the boss.

I personally enjoyed it. It was a nice tough boss fight if you didn't know to go kill the bell ringers, and even if you did he hits hard. And it was a nice stroll through memory lane.
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Re: Rip-off or Homage?

Postby Vumsy » Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:47 am

There's only so and so many boss mechanics allowed within the "Souls rules" and only game changing mechanics allow variety at this point. Almost every boss in Blood Borne follows a formula or share similarities from it's spiritual precursors. Flamelurker, King Allant, Phalanx, Gravelord Nito, Sif, Gwyn, Etc. Etc.

So far Amygdala and Shadows of Yarnham are the most original boss fights. I must admit though, they made the right call not doing Dragon God and Bed of Shit throwbacks.
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Re: Rip-off or Homage?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:41 pm

Vumsy wrote:There's only so and so many boss mechanics allowed within the "Souls rules" and only game changing mechanics allow variety at this point. Almost every boss in Blood Borne follows a formula or share similarities from it's spiritual precursors. Flamelurker, King Allant, Phalanx, Gravelord Nito, Sif, Gwyn, Etc. Etc.


I disagree with this in it's entirety. There is plenty that can be done within the "Souls engine" but developers just don't have the time or money to be original these days. New and different things can be done that don't have to be direct references from older bosses. In fact, if anything, Bloodborne should be a great example of a lot of new and different things being done within the souls engine even if it's still following formula at it's core.

And hey, I actually liked Dragon God. The first time...
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Re: Rip-off or Homage?

Postby Kabrawly » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:53 pm

It's a bit silly to assume that it's unoriginality that led to the creation of this boss. The fight is close to nothing like the Tower Knight fight, save the enemies hurling projectiles at you that you could go kill. Attacking the legs is an unnecessary tactic (unless the fact that it's the easiest part to hit makes it necessary), as opposed to the core of the fight. I shot the body growing out of his front end and stunned him for a visceral attack, and then he frenzied and I danced around him getting my hits in when I could.

In my (strongly reinforced) opinion, it's nothing remotely close to a rip-off, and only loosely a homage due to some enemies surrounding it that only play a part in the fight if you have no prior experience.
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Re: Rip-off or Homage?

Postby HazelrahFiver » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:19 pm

Definitely just a bit of a homage. My friend, who had already beaten the boss, was in the room when I made my attempt. As soon as the magic balls began to rain down on me I felt as if it were likely that something was shooting them from above. I searched with my targeting and sure enough, found the maidens. At this point my buddy remarked about how they are the reason the fight is tough, but I refused to struggle through that and searched. My trust in From to make a balanced fight was justified, and I found the stairs to the top level much to my friend's disappointment. He had not found them heheh.

Regardless, we both immediately were reminded of the Tower Knight, and it made us happy. However, it was only the top level ranged targets that gave us that impression. Otherwise, it was a fairly original boss, especially with that raining body parts magic. That was disgusting and difficult to dodge.
Last edited by HazelrahFiver on Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rip-off or Homage?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:39 am

double post.............................................
Last edited by Magicisoverrated on Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rip-off or Homage?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:40 am

Kabrawly wrote:It's a bit silly to assume that it's unoriginality that led to the creation of this boss. The fight is close to nothing like the Tower Knight fight, save the enemies hurling projectiles at you that you could go kill. Attacking the legs is an unnecessary tactic (unless the fact that it's the easiest part to hit makes it necessary), as opposed to the core of the fight. I shot the body growing out of his front end and stunned him for a visceral attack, and then he frenzied and I danced around him getting my hits in when I could.

In my (strongly reinforced) opinion, it's nothing remotely close to a rip-off, and only loosely a homage due to some enemies surrounding it that only play a part in the fight if you have no prior experience.


Despite that the arena layout is almost completely the same, i mean uncannily the same not just coincidence and the general tactics involved in killing him also being the same..even the fog gate behind him was reminiscent. It's actually just as you said, the boss isn't QUITE close enough to being the same so to me it didn't feel so much as a homage as just reused assets, which is unoriginal in my book.

Also hey Krabby patty.
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Re: Rip-off or Homage?

Postby Kabrawly » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:29 pm

Magicisoverrated wrote:Also hey Krabby patty.


Now I feel bad because I feel like I should remember who you are :oops:


Edit for relevance: It'd be tough to completely reuse assets considering the amount of changes between the games. I can agree that the inspiration may have come from it, but I just feel like the boss fights are too different for it to be laziness.
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Re: Rip-off or Homage?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:39 pm

Kabrawly wrote:
Now I feel bad because I feel like I should remember who you are :oops:


Don't feel bad, it's intentional. :)

Kabrawly wrote:Edit for relevance: It'd be tough to completely reuse assets considering the amount of changes between the games. I can agree that the inspiration may have come from it, but I just feel like the boss fights are too different for it to be laziness.


Not many changes at all between games as far as game engine goes reusing assets is entirely possible and a lot easier than you think it would be. I would have to disagree with being entirely different, the stage design and concept are essentially the same while art direction and style had a lot of work put into them. I wouldn't say it's "laziness" just how games are made these days, a majority of the people playing wont notice to begin with.
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Re: Rip-off or Homage?

Postby Kokurokoki » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:06 pm

Magicisoverrated wrote:Those of you who remember playing through Demon's Souls undoubtedly remember one of the more memorable bosses being Tower Knight. Easily one of the more difficult bosses for new players back in 2009 until stumbling upon a staircase (or on your first try by way of youtube tutorial) which lead up and allowed the player to deal with the pesky archers and spam soul arrow down upon Tower Knights dome.

Bloodborne does not have Soul Arrow, but it seems to have it's own version of the Tower Knight (albeit much less memorable and not nearly as difficult). The arena of The One Reborn is very nearly a direct re-skin of this boss fight from Demon's Souls. there are stairs leading up to the parapets where a bell maiden is waiting conveniently next to a ledge for you to kill to prevent them from shooting magical fire arrows at you. Even killing the boss felt somewhat similar, not entirely but attacking the bosses legs until it collapsed was giving me flashbacks.

To be honest I'm not too sure how i feel about it. It was nice for a little bit of nostalgia for long term fans of the series but as a result the boss felt unoriginal. How did this sit with everyone else? did you notice?


The One Reborn felt almost like playing Dead Space in my opinion. Kind of a cool feeling. My only regret is that it doesn't chase you through some sewers or something like that.
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Re: Rip-off or Homage?

Postby Cam » Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:27 am

You're overthinking it. It's a throwback.
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Re: Rip-off or Homage?

Postby GoTaco » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:20 pm

I've found a lot in Bloodborne and the Souls series in general to be similar at the least aesthetically to Demon's Souls.

The Nightmare Frontier aesthetically is very similar to 4-2 or 4-3 (can't recall) in DS. Especially the portion of the level where the enemy who causes an easy Frenzy is on the narrow rock path. It looks a lot like the Gold Skeleton (so many deaths) section of 4-2.


DkS2 reuses a ton for DkS like adding the "Dragon Hunters" storyline so they repeat Ornstein once or twice.
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Re: Rip-off or Homage?

Postby Cam » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:57 pm

GoTaco wrote:I've found a lot in Bloodborne and the Souls series in general to be similar at the least aesthetically to Demon's Souls.

The Nightmare Frontier aesthetically is very similar to 4-2 or 4-3 (can't recall) in DS. Especially the portion of the level where the enemy who causes an easy Frenzy is on the narrow rock path. It looks a lot like the Gold Skeleton (so many deaths) section of 4-2.


DkS2 reuses a ton for DkS like adding the "Dragon Hunters" storyline so they repeat Ornstein once or twice.

That's interesting, I actually didn't think of the Shrine of Storms when I got there. It made me think more of the Dragon Aerie from DkSII.
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Re: Rip-off or Homage?

Postby Jumilaattori » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:08 am

Homage. Bosses were different. Iron giant vs disgusting scary pile of call it what you will. It fit the to the stage imo and it has some cool moves, like corpse rain and whatnot.

Magicisoverrated wrote: Now I feel bad because I feel like I should remember who you are :oops:



Don't feel bad, it's intentional. :)
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Re: Rip-off or Homage?

Postby rkzhao » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:39 pm

The only homage I felt in this game was a visual one in Logarius.

It's a bit surprising since I would have expected more nods to DkS than a cult hit like DeS. Maybe there were DkS references and I just missed them.

For the one reborn, every time, I completely ignored the bell maidens and just ran in and wailed on him until he died. Apart from the slight similarity of having ranged mobs to kill on a separate level from the boss, the fight itself was for me at least, much more simpler than Tower Knight.
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