Kirkhammer or Ludwig?

Discuss the multiple items and magic consuming techniques of Yharnam

Kirkhammer or Ludwig?

Postby Thaumogenesis » Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:56 pm

Pretty sure that I'm not first person to ponder which one of these weapons they should upgrade 8-)

I'm at level 66 Atm an my Stats look as follows:
V: 31
E: 23
Str: 25
Skl: 12
Bld: 5
Arc: 20

I'm not quite sure where I'm gonna take this build. It's my first character and I play it solo, offline. Pretty sure that i'll leave Bloodtinge at base, but other than that, I'm not sure yet. I really like the hammer and I've played with it since the beginning when I had the required stats. It's done a great good job so far and I really like the stun-effect that it has on larger enemies. Kinda reminds of Meat Cleaver too which is a plus of course. Not sure if the Ludwig can also stun enemies. However it has a nice broad sweep to fight larger groups of enemies but because of my stats, it always was a bit worse than the hammer and thus I didn't use it so much.

I've got both weapons at +6 and I'm about to face the boss of the Forbidden Woods (I think). I have three chunks exactly and although I'm pretty sure I^ll end up upgrading both, I kinda need to make a decision now.

What's your opionion of these two weapons? Have any of you tried both of them extensively?

All input is highly appreciated!
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Re: Kirkhammer or Ludwig?

Postby Wilfio » Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:56 pm

Kirkhammer if you're not upping your skill any more - it has A scaling in strength at +10. Ludwig's if you up your skill to be equal with strength for sure - it has B scaling in strength and skill at +10.

At 25 strength and skill, using the same gems, my Ludwig's out-damages my Kirkhammer by about 30 AR, not to mention the moveset is just plain better.
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Re: Kirkhammer or Ludwig?

Postby DidoRumbus » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:25 pm

Since you've already invested in arcane, I'd recommend a wheel build. In this case, kirkhammer would pay off better than ludwig until you get wheel:

SL 110: 50/27/40/13/5/25
RH1: Wheel/Kirk
RH2: Tonitrus
LH1: Bluderbuss
LH2: Cannon

I have this exact build at 120 (50 STR) and love it. :gamers:
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Re: Kirkhammer or Ludwig?

Postby rkzhao » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:13 pm

to me, weapon choices always comes down to moveset preference more than raw damage. Of course, a build is suppose to maximize damage for the chosen weapon but going the opposite direction, I would still take a more useful weapon over a higher damage one.

Ludwig vs Kirkhammer is essentially DeS Clay vs DeS Gaxe without ground pound. The choice in movesets should be pretty obvious though I will admit that I do still have a soft spot for the Kirkhammer's transformation attacks. As a longsword, Ludwig has slightly longer range.
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Re: Kirkhammer or Ludwig?

Postby Astro_Train » Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:25 pm

I also had the same dilema but decided to go with Ludwigs.. its slightly faster and has good weapon priority. The main issue I have with the Kirk is the range and slower recovery animation from swings. In PVP the Ludwig has done better for me. Also with some boss fights Ludwigs faster speed can make a difference between hit or miss and leaves you less open to attacks.What you can do is always make a second toon later with a dedicated Ludwig build.

I also agree that you should play with whatever play-style you like with regard to weapon of choice.
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Re: Kirkhammer or Ludwig?

Postby Thaumogenesis » Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:30 pm

I completely agree on the "moveset first" approach and that's why I went with Ludwigs. I did some testing and it also stuns most enemies like the Kirkhammer does, so it was kinda easy to decide. Killed Darkbeast with it; it suddenly was a very easy fight compared to my Kirkhammer setup attempts.

Didn't realize that the Hammer's "transformation-attacks" were intentional though, I thought it was some sort of bug/abuse. I haven't used them much but it allows for some very funny combos. I shall create a Strength build later though.

Thanks for the feedback guys, it helped a lot :)
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Re: Kirkhammer or Ludwig?

Postby Cam » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:01 pm

Ludwig's Holy Blade isn't something I have a lot of experience with, but I have main'd the Kirkhammer for some time now and based on research, it seems that Ludwig's has higher damage potential, considering the scaling.

At 50STR,50SKL, without any blood gems,
My +10 Kirkhammer has 440 AR.
My +9 Ludwig's Holy Blade has 437 AR.

So, Ludwig's has slightly higher AR. Moveset-wise, Ludwig's is pretty user-friendly. Wide swing arcs, quick attack, long range. Unlike the Kirkhammer which requires timing, spacing and all-around accuracy.

I wouldn't be discouraged from using the KH over LHB, though. KH forces you to play better, and it always feels good to use an underused weapon.
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Re: Kirkhammer or Ludwig?

Postby plaintomato » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:59 pm

Kirkhammer is the coolest weapon in the game. It's like a body builder, it might not actually work the best, but damn if it doesn't look good doing it. Do you even fashion? Cannon, Kirkhammer, Gold Ardeo, and a lamp on the waist to let my light so shine stamina regen be damned.
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Re: Kirkhammer or Ludwig?

Postby bialy0021 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:05 am

kirkhammer is probably more stat efficient if going for 50str (translates to roughly 30/30 i guess?). it also has ok aoe on hammer attacks that seems to work like any other hitstun in pvp. unlike ludwig, which has 1 decent transform attack imo, its transformation (or follow up) attacks are also fine.

ludwig seems overrated tbh. you do get high ar but only for high investment and multipliers on attacks are rather low so it is a bit misleading. that said, silver sword works the same on both but looks way better on ludwig. easy pick.
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