Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

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Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Cam » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:14 pm

Legit, of course. I'm going to try to level up to 544 myself, just for the hell of it, if it isn't too time-consuming.
Is anyone currently in the midst of grinding for level 544?
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby plaintomato » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:02 am

I've never believed anyone who says they maxed legit in any one of these games. Liars all of them. The cost is just too high. You are a liar for even thinking about it.

Knew a guy who tried to max in DkS. He hit mid-300's after 472 years of non-stop play with one character, which was impressive. But he was a fat ugly liar too.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Cam » Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:20 am

Well, it seems more plausible this time around. I'd heard that the level-up costs were the same values as in DS/DkS. I know a handful of people mentioned having legit level 400-ish characters in DkS from gravelording back in the day. 544 might just be manageable. It makes me excited just thinking about it. :)
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby DidoRumbus » Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:08 am

I won't, but I know people who have (not legit of course) on earlier versions of the game. I believe 1.02 patched out the pebble dupe glitch (could max level by duping coldblood or ritual items and selling them), and 1.03 patched out the walking in circle glitch (although this would take a loooong time to max level).
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby plaintomato » Fri May 01, 2015 1:49 am

Cam wrote:Well, it seems more plausible this time around. I'd heard that the level-up costs were the same values as in DS/DkS. I know a handful of people mentioned having legit level 400-ish characters in DkS from gravelording back in the day. 544 might just be manageable. It makes me excited just thinking about it. :)

Yeah, it's still 2 million to 100 and another 2 million to 125, I know that much so cost looks the same. 544's definitely more manageable than previous max levels but still insane. You could have 10 builds ready at 100-125 in less time. 99 Vit and 50's across the board would be 299, which is a number with some charm - maybe that's a more reasonable stretch goal if you are really considering it, and there might actually be a few players there to connect with down the road.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby HazelrahFiver » Fri May 01, 2015 9:59 am

My "main" is BL408. In NG I spent a long time farming the lecture hall in order to beat what seemed to be the impossible Logarius. Turns out he is easy, now that I understand how to fight him, but that's not really the point. I finally stopped leveling and went all of the dungeons, and then completed the game. I plan on continuing to level this character all the way to max, but I ran into a problem. I got so high in NG, but was under the assumption that I could continue the trend in NG+. You get a TON more echoes per boss kill in NG+, but I am after Rom now and still haven't gotten enough haha. I may just farm the lecture hall for a few hours every cycle, as I think it's the only real, legit way to level up after a certain point.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Cam » Fri May 01, 2015 4:08 pm

HazelrahFiver wrote:My "main" is BL408. In NG I spent a long time farming the lecture hall in order to beat what seemed to be the impossible Logarius. Turns out he is easy, now that I understand how to fight him, but that's not really the point. I finally stopped leveling and went all of the dungeons, and then completed the game. I plan on continuing to level this character all the way to max, but I ran into a problem. I got so high in NG, but was under the assumption that I could continue the trend in NG+. You get a TON more echoes per boss kill in NG+, but I am after Rom now and still haven't gotten enough haha. I may just farm the lecture hall for a few hours every cycle, as I think it's the only real, legit way to level up after a certain point.

Do you like this game, Hazel? I quite like it.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby HazelrahFiver » Mon May 04, 2015 8:31 am

Aside from the dungeons, the game is stellar. The difficulty of the main game is less than the Dark games, but throw in the optional bosses and Bb has the greatest challenge. The setting, the atmosphere, the weapons, and omg the music are all worth experiencing several times over. It's not even that the dungeons in and of themselves are bad, it's the horrendous farming for materials and gems. I did it with one character and will never again.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Cam » Mon May 04, 2015 5:34 pm

HazelrahFiver wrote:Aside from the dungeons, the game is stellar. The difficulty of the main game is less than the Dark games, but throw in the optional bosses and Bb has the greatest challenge. The setting, the atmosphere, the weapons, and omg the music are all worth experiencing several times over. It's not even that the dungeons in and of themselves are bad, it's the horrendous farming for materials and gems. I did it with one character and will never again.

Okay, wait. So did you farm all the different gems, or just the highest grade of gems? Either way, I'm doing that myself right now, and I'm wondering where you find 20-grade gems, because I don't think I've seen one in the entire game so far.

This is my favorite game since DS. I really didn't enjoy Dark Souls/2 all that much. I just played them for PvP.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Astrichthyes » Tue May 05, 2015 11:05 pm

Cam wrote:
HazelrahFiver wrote:Aside from the dungeons, the game is stellar. The difficulty of the main game is less than the Dark games, but throw in the optional bosses and Bb has the greatest challenge. The setting, the atmosphere, the weapons, and omg the music are all worth experiencing several times over. It's not even that the dungeons in and of themselves are bad, it's the horrendous farming for materials and gems. I did it with one character and will never again.

Okay, wait. So did you farm all the different gems, or just the highest grade of gems? Either way, I'm doing that myself right now, and I'm wondering where you find 20-grade gems, because I don't think I've seen one in the entire game so far.

This is my favorite game since DS. I really didn't enjoy Dark Souls/2 all that much. I just played them for PvP.

Abyssal gems are very rare and, AFAIK, can only be obtained from depth 5 chalice dungeon bosses. The lower the layer, the better the drops. I've gotten probably 100 gems in the game and I've only found one abyssal gem (a crappy one at that).
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Cam » Wed May 06, 2015 3:25 am

Astrichthyes wrote:
Cam wrote:
HazelrahFiver wrote:Aside from the dungeons, the game is stellar. The difficulty of the main game is less than the Dark games, but throw in the optional bosses and Bb has the greatest challenge. The setting, the atmosphere, the weapons, and omg the music are all worth experiencing several times over. It's not even that the dungeons in and of themselves are bad, it's the horrendous farming for materials and gems. I did it with one character and will never again.

Okay, wait. So did you farm all the different gems, or just the highest grade of gems? Either way, I'm doing that myself right now, and I'm wondering where you find 20-grade gems, because I don't think I've seen one in the entire game so far.

This is my favorite game since DS. I really didn't enjoy Dark Souls/2 all that much. I just played them for PvP.

Abyssal gems are very rare and, AFAIK, can only be obtained from depth 5 chalice dungeon bosses. The lower the layer, the better the drops. I've gotten probably 100 gems in the game and I've only found one abyssal gem (a crappy one at that).

I've been farming a couple depth 5 dungeons for a good while now, but I haven't found one yet. I just assumed some of the cursed tempered damp gems could drop at grade 20, but it seems that's not how it works.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Astrichthyes » Wed May 06, 2015 7:38 am

They supposedly can drop grade 20, but it's extremely rare. My logwheel testing thread has a link to a spreadsheet with chalice glyphs where they found grade 20 cursed gems if you're interested in looking
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby bialy0021 » Wed May 06, 2015 10:02 am

i believe grade 20 (abyssal) gems drop only from lower layer bosses in depth5 chalices - layer 3/4 presumably.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Cam » Wed May 06, 2015 3:34 pm

Astrichthyes wrote:They supposedly can drop grade 20, but it's extremely rare. My logwheel testing thread has a link to a spreadsheet with chalice glyphs where they found grade 20 cursed gems if you're interested in looking

I am interested. I'm trying to see if I can hit 1000AR before buffing, hah.

It'd be great if there were grade 20 cursed tempering radial and triangle gems. Some that grant 29 or maybe even 30% physical attack.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Astrichthyes » Wed May 06, 2015 4:47 pm

Cam wrote:
Astrichthyes wrote:They supposedly can drop grade 20, but it's extremely rare. My logwheel testing thread has a link to a spreadsheet with chalice glyphs where they found grade 20 cursed gems if you're interested in looking

I am interested. I'm trying to see if I can hit 1000AR before buffing, hah.

It'd be great if there were grade 20 cursed tempering radial and triangle gems. Some that grant 29 or maybe even 30% physical attack.

Here is the doc.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... edit#gid=0

Btw, you can infinitely farm echoes while AFK in the 3rd layer of 5v5vfdsp (I think that's the glyph, might be fpsd) in FRC Pthum Root. You literally just equip moon runes, stand at the edge of the elevator above the poison-spewing chalice and the chime maiden spiders will naturally spawn, run to you, die of poison, and respawn.

I also found radial bloodtinge gems, which I find rather scary considering how powerful chikage is.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Zubroska40 » Wed May 06, 2015 4:55 pm

My experience :

3 runes "eyes" equipped. (dunno if it works, but hey, clockwise rune are useless in cursed donjon, who cares about 150 HP ?)

Glyph : 42t2cns6

30 times : 12 cursed tempering abyssal gems, 10 radiant forms, 2 waning forms. That s not so rare, guys.

2/3 of them are crappy because curse broke them. (love the -10 HP each 3 secs, the atk-8%, the durability - 60 : Damn YOU FS!)

20 min per donjon max when u know the donjon, cause you ll enter in japanese irradiated robot mode after the 5 times u kill the Bloodletting Beast. (try it with a lot coffee, that s an amazing PvE mode. U ll be never the same after that.)

no death run in the donjon and perfect the BlB will not guaranteed an abyssal gem : it s only random. Who is still thinking "souls game" need skill after it?


Results : pretty useless vs 27,2 % phys attack gems for PvP. phys atk 24,8% and + 6% full life is OP for chalice donjons PvE.

24,8%+6% when life under 20% is funny for PvP. +5,8% vs open foes too. But it s not better than 27,2%, it s pretty the same.

Enjoy robots! :gamers:
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Cam » Wed May 06, 2015 5:48 pm

Cursed Abyssal Tempering gems only give a bonus of 24-25% atk up. That's little more than what non-cursed Tempering gems give. I need something that provides more than 27.2% atk up. I've heard that it goes as high as 30%, but I've never seen one, and information on top tier gems is pretty limited right now.

Also, HP drain isn't as annoying as it looks. I currently have a -9 HP regen in my Kirkhammer, and I don't even notice it. Even in the cursed dungeons, where my HP is cut in half. I'd rather have -9 HP regen than -60 durability.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Astrichthyes » Wed May 06, 2015 7:24 pm

Cam wrote:Cursed Abyssal Tempering gems only give a bonus of 24-25% atk up. That's little more than what non-cursed Tempering gems give. I need something that provides more than 27.2% atk up. I've heard that it goes as high as 30%, but I've never seen one, and information on top tier gems is pretty limited right now.

Also, HP drain isn't as annoying as it looks. I currently have a -9 HP regen in my Kirkhammer, and I don't even notice it. Even in the cursed dungeons, where my HP is cut in half. I'd rather have -9 HP regen than -60 durability.

The biggest boost I've seen is 27.2%P, which is on the spreadsheet I linked earlier. I don't think you can find an abyssal physical gem for 30%
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Juli » Wed May 06, 2015 8:19 pm

According to the guide, the best possible gem +% roll is 28.1%. That would be on an Abyssal that didn't roll a secondary stat, but I've never seen or heard of one. If it's possible for a cursed Abyssal to roll no secondary, it's extremely rare.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Cam » Wed May 06, 2015 9:09 pm

Juli wrote:According to the guide, the best possible gem +% roll is 28.1%. That would be on an Abyssal that didn't roll a secondary stat, but I've never seen or heard of one. If it's possible for a cursed Abyssal to roll no secondary, it's extremely rare.

Then, it's impossible to reach 1000 attack rating before buffing with the KH. That's a bummer.
Unless From increases the STR scaling in a patch. Although, I don't think they'll do that.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Astrichthyes » Thu May 07, 2015 9:35 am

Cam wrote:
Juli wrote:According to the guide, the best possible gem +% roll is 28.1%. That would be on an Abyssal that didn't roll a secondary stat, but I've never seen or heard of one. If it's possible for a cursed Abyssal to roll no secondary, it's extremely rare.

Then, it's impossible to reach 1000 attack rating before buffing with the KH. That's a bummer.
Unless From increases the STR scaling in a patch. Although, I don't think they'll do that.

If you want 1000ar, it'll have to be on holy blade or logwheel. I doubt there is any other way to do it
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Cam » Thu May 07, 2015 9:03 pm

Astrichthyes wrote:If you want 1000ar, it'll have to be on holy blade or logwheel. I doubt there is any other way to do it

It doesn't matter to me enough to use LHB. As for the logwheel, it's simply not my thing, plus it can't be buffed, iirc.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Juli » Fri May 08, 2015 3:12 pm

Logwheel can't get 1k AR anyways. At 99/99 STR/ARC, its AR is lower than a Kirkhammer with 99/99 STR/SKL assuming both have 3 27.2% physical gems in them.

Although with +%blunt gems, you could get Logwheel/Kirkhammer to 1K blunt AR. Just not normal physical damage. For Logwheel I guess that doesn't matter, since all its physical damage is blunt, AFAIK.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Cam » Fri May 08, 2015 8:44 pm

Juli wrote:Logwheel can't get 1k AR anyways. At 99/99 STR/ARC, its AR is lower than a Kirkhammer with 99/99 STR/SKL assuming both have 3 27.2% physical gems in them.

Although with +%blunt gems, you could get Logwheel/Kirkhammer to 1K blunt AR. Just not normal physical damage. For Logwheel I guess that doesn't matter, since all its physical damage is blunt, AFAIK.

Really? Is it because its ARC scaling isn't affected by the +physical gems, and that A/E contributes more than just S? I'm kind of confused how that works.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Juli » Fri May 08, 2015 10:03 pm

Oh, sure A+E is higher than S. Kirk has 1.0 STR scaling and 0.29 Skill. Logwheel has 1.1 STR scaling. So 1.29 total vs. 1.1 total. Also Kirk has 210 base physical compared to Logwheel's 200—so even if you take away Kirk's Skill scaling, it will have the same Physical AR as Logwheel (210+210 Kirk; 200+220 Logwheel). So Kirk will definitely have higher physical at 544, and when you have gems more than doubling your physical AR, it outweighs the Arcane damage from Logwheel.

That being said, while Logwheel gets the highest AR increase from +%Physical, I think Astrichthyes's research suggests that Nourishing gems are probably the best overall damage increase for it, if you care at all about its TF attacks.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Cam » Fri May 08, 2015 11:38 pm

Juli wrote:Oh, sure A+E is higher than S. Kirk has 1.0 STR scaling and 0.29 Skill. Logwheel has 1.1 STR scaling. So 1.29 total vs. 1.1 total. Also Kirk has 210 base physical compared to Logwheel's 200—so even if you take away Kirk's Skill scaling, it will have the same Physical AR as Logwheel (210+210 Kirk; 200+220 Logwheel). So Kirk will definitely have higher physical at 544, and when you have gems more than doubling your physical AR, it outweighs the Arcane damage from Logwheel.

That being said, while Logwheel gets the highest AR increase from +%Physical, I think Astrichthyes's research suggests that Nourishing gems are probably the best overall damage increase for it, if you care at all about its TF attacks.

Where are you getting these exact number figures from? Letter-based scaling is rather vague. If this is common knowledge, I just apparently haven't been paying attention while everybody was testing things out.

Then I have a question: If you have S scaling, is it always 1.1? Can a scaling gem increase that value ever further? And if it can, is the value simply used to determine which letter of scaling you have? Or is the letter just a mask for the number value? If that makes any sense.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Astrichthyes » Sat May 09, 2015 12:31 am

Juli wrote:Oh, sure A+E is higher than S. Kirk has 1.0 STR scaling and 0.29 Skill. Logwheel has 1.1 STR scaling. So 1.29 total vs. 1.1 total. Also Kirk has 210 base physical compared to Logwheel's 200—so even if you take away Kirk's Skill scaling, it will have the same Physical AR as Logwheel (210+210 Kirk; 200+220 Logwheel). So Kirk will definitely have higher physical at 544, and when you have gems more than doubling your physical AR, it outweighs the Arcane damage from Logwheel.

That being said, while Logwheel gets the highest AR increase from +%Physical, I think Astrichthyes's research suggests that Nourishing gems are probably the best overall damage increase for it, if you care at all about its TF attacks.

Basically, while kirk has higher physical AR than the Logwheel, the wheel also benefits from the ARC it has and can self-buff for a percentage of its arcane AR on top of whatever physical AR you have. Let's look at the math here:

Kirkhammer+10 at 99/99 with 3 27.2% physical gems has 210+270 physical AR multiplied by 2.058 and rounded down to the nearest AR. That's 987 PhysAR. Blunt gems would limit you to the hammer form of the weapon, which is only half of the moveset. You don't want to pidgeon-hole yourself with half of a weapon's moveset.

Logarius Wheel+10 at 99/99 with 3 21.5%ATK gems has 200+219 physAR and 50+28 ARC AR multiplied by 1.793 and rounded down. That's 891AR total in the 1h stance, but the 2h stance has hidden scaling and unknown moveset modifiers. You can gain a lot more AR from the buffs as well, which does not require QS bullets and may be activated/deactivated at any time to minimize hp drain. If you wanted to go for physical gems instead of mixed, you'll actually benefit greatly from blunt gems because there are no attacks (besides perhaps visceral and the TF-UTF transformation attack) this weapon has that aren't blunt. There's no damage-type trap here because both forms benefit from that blunt gem, just not as much for the TF version. That's where Logwheel has an advantage over the Kirk, which has all 3 physical damage types and will be greatly held back by the blunt gems.

The physical damage of the Logwheel is not bad in the TF state, but arcane seems to be a lot better due to buffs, hidden scaling, and multipliers. There's honestly no telling what will happen with this weapon at higher levels because there is so little that we actually know about its secondary form. What I do know is that the multipliers and scaling-change for the Logwheel may turn that sad-looking 50+C arcane AR into a (100+C)x2 kind of thing, which equates to some strong scaling in an exceptional damage type.

What I tested earlier indicated that the multiplier for damage from ARC AR is about double the actual AR. That means the 78x1.793 AR you saw above may turn into 78x1.793x2. That's about 280 damage for the regular r1 WITHOUT buffs. If you want the buffs, you're looking at an additional 1.1 multiplier if the 10% rule is correct and that's just for 1 buff. This is also not considering the fact that you can switch damage types to deal with physical walls (ex 2-3 physical runes).

Without a doubt, the Logwheel will benefit greatly in the increase from 30/25 to 99/99. I'm already hitting over 1k in pve with 18% gems. It's kind of like the Meat Cleaver for this game.

As for scaling, Cam, it varies. The 1.1 for str is exclusive to the Logwheel. You can add a heavy gem to increase that scaling to the max, but it probably won't be as good as a % gem because it is additive, not multiplicative like the % gems. In other words, you can put three +20 scaling gems on the same weapon (on Logwheel, that'd be 1.7), which multiplies the amount of AR you gain from stat investment by that amount (which is a percentage. So 1.7 x 200= 340, which nets you 540 PhysAR at 99s. Now look at the 27.2% phys gems. 200+220 = 420. Now multiply it by 1.272^3. That's 864. In order to compete with those % gems, the scaling gems would need to match that 2.058 multiplier, which would be +35 scaling or more. The best heavy gem is 24.8, which is nowhere near what you would need. This is assuming, of course, that the scaling increase adds as a percentage in scaling.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Cam » Sat May 09, 2015 1:10 am

Astrichthyes wrote:Basically, while kirk has higher physical AR than the Logwheel, the wheel also benefits from the ARC it has and can self-buff for a percentage of its arcane AR on top of whatever physical AR you have. Let's look at the math here:

Kirkhammer+10 at 99/99 with 3 27.2% physical gems has 210+270 physical AR multiplied by 2.058 and rounded down to the nearest AR. That's 987 PhysAR. Blunt gems would limit you to the hammer form of the weapon, which is only half of the moveset. You don't want to pidgeon-hole yourself with half of a weapon's moveset.

Logarius Wheel+10 at 99/99 with 3 21.5%ATK gems has 200+219 physAR and 50+28 ARC AR multiplied by 1.793 and rounded down. That's 891AR total in the 1h stance, but the 2h stance has hidden scaling and unknown moveset modifiers. You can gain a lot more AR from the buffs as well, which does not require QS bullets and may be activated/deactivated at any time to minimize hp drain. If you wanted to go for physical gems instead of mixed, you'll actually benefit greatly from blunt gems because there are no attacks (besides perhaps visceral and the TF-UTF transformation attack) this weapon has that aren't blunt. There's no damage-type trap here because both forms benefit from that blunt gem, just not as much for the TF version. That's where Logwheel has an advantage over the Kirk, which has all 3 physical damage types and will be greatly held back by the blunt gems.

The physical damage of the Logwheel is not bad in the TF state, but arcane seems to be a lot better due to buffs, hidden scaling, and multipliers. There's honestly no telling what will happen with this weapon at higher levels because there is so little that we actually know about its secondary form. What I do know is that the multipliers and scaling-change for the Logwheel may turn that sad-looking 50+C arcane AR into a (100+C)x2 kind of thing, which equates to some strong scaling in an exceptional damage type.

What I tested earlier indicated that the multiplier for damage from ARC AR is about double the actual AR. That means the 78x1.793 AR you saw above may turn into 78x1.793x2. That's about 280 damage for the regular r1 WITHOUT buffs. If you want the buffs, you're looking at an additional 1.1 multiplier if the 10% rule is correct and that's just for 1 buff. This is also not considering the fact that you can switch damage types to deal with physical walls (ex 2-3 physical runes).

Without a doubt, the Logwheel will benefit greatly in the increase from 30/25 to 99/99. I'm already hitting over 1k in pve with 18% gems. It's kind of like the Meat Cleaver for this game.

As for scaling, Cam, it varies. The 1.1 for str is exclusive to the Logwheel. You can add a heavy gem to increase that scaling to the max, but it probably won't be as good as a % gem because it is additive, not multiplicative like the % gems. In other words, you can put three +20 scaling gems on the same weapon (on Logwheel, that'd be 1.7), which multiplies the amount of AR you gain from stat investment by that amount (which is a percentage. So 1.7 x 200= 340, which nets you 540 PhysAR at 99s. Now look at the 27.2% phys gems. 200+220 = 420. Now multiply it by 1.272^3. That's 864. In order to compete with those % gems, the scaling gems would need to match that 2.058 multiplier, which would be +35 scaling or more. The best heavy gem is 24.8, which is nowhere near what you would need. This is assuming, of course, that the scaling increase adds as a percentage in scaling.

How high level are you planning to go with this Logwheel build of yours? Are you trying to get the highest possible AR for it? We should have a duel or something once AR is maximized. ;)


I appreciate the long comparison of ARs, it was an interesting read to say the least. I don't think I'll switch over to the Logwheel even if it is outright superior, I'm too attached to the KH. On a side note, do you know what determines the actual damage output between transformations? The KH has only one AR reading, but a longsword and a hammer. The hammer should do more damage, but it has the same AR.

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions. I just think this is a pretty interesting topic.
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby Astrichthyes » Sat May 09, 2015 9:17 am

Cam wrote:
Astrichthyes wrote:Basically, while kirk has higher physical AR than the Logwheel, the wheel also benefits from the ARC it has and can self-buff for a percentage of its arcane AR on top of whatever physical AR you have. Let's look at the math here:

Kirkhammer+10 at 99/99 with 3 27.2% physical gems has 210+270 physical AR multiplied by 2.058 and rounded down to the nearest AR. That's 987 PhysAR. Blunt gems would limit you to the hammer form of the weapon, which is only half of the moveset. You don't want to pidgeon-hole yourself with half of a weapon's moveset.

Logarius Wheel+10 at 99/99 with 3 21.5%ATK gems has 200+219 physAR and 50+28 ARC AR multiplied by 1.793 and rounded down. That's 891AR total in the 1h stance, but the 2h stance has hidden scaling and unknown moveset modifiers. You can gain a lot more AR from the buffs as well, which does not require QS bullets and may be activated/deactivated at any time to minimize hp drain. If you wanted to go for physical gems instead of mixed, you'll actually benefit greatly from blunt gems because there are no attacks (besides perhaps visceral and the TF-UTF transformation attack) this weapon has that aren't blunt. There's no damage-type trap here because both forms benefit from that blunt gem, just not as much for the TF version. That's where Logwheel has an advantage over the Kirk, which has all 3 physical damage types and will be greatly held back by the blunt gems.

The physical damage of the Logwheel is not bad in the TF state, but arcane seems to be a lot better due to buffs, hidden scaling, and multipliers. There's honestly no telling what will happen with this weapon at higher levels because there is so little that we actually know about its secondary form. What I do know is that the multipliers and scaling-change for the Logwheel may turn that sad-looking 50+C arcane AR into a (100+C)x2 kind of thing, which equates to some strong scaling in an exceptional damage type.

What I tested earlier indicated that the multiplier for damage from ARC AR is about double the actual AR. That means the 78x1.793 AR you saw above may turn into 78x1.793x2. That's about 280 damage for the regular r1 WITHOUT buffs. If you want the buffs, you're looking at an additional 1.1 multiplier if the 10% rule is correct and that's just for 1 buff. This is also not considering the fact that you can switch damage types to deal with physical walls (ex 2-3 physical runes).

Without a doubt, the Logwheel will benefit greatly in the increase from 30/25 to 99/99. I'm already hitting over 1k in pve with 18% gems. It's kind of like the Meat Cleaver for this game.

As for scaling, Cam, it varies. The 1.1 for str is exclusive to the Logwheel. You can add a heavy gem to increase that scaling to the max, but it probably won't be as good as a % gem because it is additive, not multiplicative like the % gems. In other words, you can put three +20 scaling gems on the same weapon (on Logwheel, that'd be 1.7), which multiplies the amount of AR you gain from stat investment by that amount (which is a percentage. So 1.7 x 200= 340, which nets you 540 PhysAR at 99s. Now look at the 27.2% phys gems. 200+220 = 420. Now multiply it by 1.272^3. That's 864. In order to compete with those % gems, the scaling gems would need to match that 2.058 multiplier, which would be +35 scaling or more. The best heavy gem is 24.8, which is nowhere near what you would need. This is assuming, of course, that the scaling increase adds as a percentage in scaling.

How high level are you planning to go with this Logwheel build of yours? Are you trying to get the highest possible AR for it? We should have a duel or something once AR is maximized. ;)


I appreciate the long comparison of ARs, it was an interesting read to say the least. I don't think I'll switch over to the Logwheel even if it is outright superior, I'm too attached to the KH. On a side note, do you know what determines the actual damage output between transformations? The KH has only one AR reading, but a longsword and a hammer. The hammer should do more damage, but it has the same AR.

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions. I just think this is a pretty interesting topic.

I'm not planning on exceeding the meta level. If it changes to 110-125, I'll gladly do so and compare the damage of 10 points in str vs arc. I highly recommend you at least try the wheel at 99/99 just to see how the damage compares without gems and with whatever ATK gem you have. I can try to calc the damage for you with the formulas I came up with on my testing thread.

The reason the Kirk has 3 different dmg types is the sword and hammer. The sword is slash and pierce while the hammer is pure blunt. The way dmg is calculated is multipliers. I don't know about the Kirk, but I actually found out that LHB has approximately the same damage per r1 combo in both stances for a full stamina bar, which is about 2:1 dmg per swing from the gs to longsword respectively.
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Has anyone hit level 544 yet?

Postby bialy0021 » Sat May 09, 2015 2:21 pm

multipliers. you should find it useful. youre welcome.

now you see that ludwig hype (even nerf cries) are just silly. ppl see ar and go crazy.
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