Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

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Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby plaintomato » Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:34 pm

QUALITY – Military Vet.
LH: Ludwig’s Holy Blade, Stake Driver, Beast Claw.
RH: Ludwig’s Rifle, Cannon.
V - 45
E - 40
S - 50
D - 25
B - 9
A - 6

BLOOD – Professional.
LH: Chikage, Rifle Spear, Reiterpallasch.
RH: Evelyn, Repeating Pistol.
V - 42
E - 40
S - 10
D - 25
B - 50
A - 8

SKILL – Cruel Fate.
LH: Blade of Mercy, Burial Blade, Threaded Cane.
RH: Flamesprayer, Rosmarinus, maybe a Blunderbuss.
V - 45
E - 40
S - 10
D - 50
B - 5
A - 25

ARCANE – Cruel Fate.
RH: Ludwig’s Holy Blade, Skill build weapons (everything gem’d to Arcane).
LH: Flamesprayer, Rosmarinus, Ludwig’s Rifle.
V - 48
E - 40
S - 16
D - 12
B - 9
A - 50

STRENGTH – Cruel Fate.
RH: Kirkhammer, Logarious’ Wheel, Tonitrus. Hunter Axe if you want it.
LH: Cannon, Flamesprayer, Rosmarinus.
V - 50
E - 40
S - 50
D - 13
B - 5
A - 15
2 stats left.

Here are some useful links:
Classes: http://bloodborne.wikidot.com/classes
Weapons at +10: http://imgur.com/a/vXzeg
Arcane Items: http://www.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/comments/308o8r/list_of_arcane_spells/
Edit: Input from Juli and Vumsy
Last edited by plaintomato on Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby Juli » Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:36 pm

I'd lower endurance below 40 before lowering vit below 50, but it won't be necessary on your builds. They've all got 10 points to spare before hitting 125 anyways. Just put 10 points in Vit IMO. Anyways, copy/pasting some stuff I posted elsewhere:

Strength Build
Cruel Fate 50/39/50/13/5/18 BL 125.
Weapons: Kirkhammer, Saw Cleaver, Cannon, Hunter's Pistol
Artifacts: Augur of Ebrietas, Beast Roar, Old Hunter's Bone, Empty Phantasm Shell
Runes: Anti-Clockwise Metamorphosis, Clawmark, Clockwise Metamorphosis, Hunter
Bloodgems: No idea

Arcane Build
Cruel Fate 50/40/16/12/5/50 BL 123.
Weapons: Ludwig's Holy Blade, Uncanny Threaded Cane, Rosmarinus, Hunter's Pistol
Artifacts: Augur of Ebrietas, Executioner's Gloves, Beast Roar, Old Hunter's Bone, A Call from Beyond
Runes: Anti-Clockwise Metamorphosis, Formless Oedon, Clockwise Metamorphosis, Hunter
Bloodgems: LHB and TC both slotted to have elemental damage for arcane scaling, otherwise no idea.

Skill Build
Cruel Fate 50/40/10/50/5/15 BL 120 I like this one a lot, all the numbers are nice multiples of 5.
Weapons: Threaded Cane, Blades of Mercy, Hunter's Pistol, Blunderbuss
Artifacts: Beast Roar, Old Hunter's Bone, Empty Phantasm Shell
Runes: Anti-Clockwise Metamorphosis, Clawmark, Clockwise Metamorphosis, Hunter
Bloodgems: No idea

Vit-gouge Quality never thought I'd see the day where that was a legit build title
Cruel Fate 70/30/30/25/5/15 BL 125 Another one with even 5's, beautiful.
Weapons: Ludwig's Holy Blade, Stake Driver, Cannon, Hunter's Pistol
Artifacts: Beast Roar, Old Hunter's Bone, Empty Phantasm Shell
Runes: Anti-Clockwise Metamorphosis, Clawmark, Clockwise Metamorphosis, Hunter
Bloodgems: No idea


These builds are based 100% on theorycraft, since I haven't actually had a chance to play the game yet.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby Vumsy » Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:21 am

For the Blood build you generally want to go Waste of Skin as a starting class. None of the bloodtinge weapons require over 10 STR except cannon which require 30 STR.

Bloody hipster build:

SL: 124

VIT: 50
END: 40
STR: 10
SKL: 25
BLD/BLT (what to call it?): 40
ARC: 9

R1: Chikage R2: Rifle Spear/RaiterHaterPallasch
L1: Evelyn L2: Whatever floats your boat.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby plaintomato » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:39 am

Thanks for the corrections, edited. And thanks for the builds Juli. Looks like variety is going to come this time more from equips than builds. I think I'll like that though, it seems faster and more balanced, and therefor more skill based...time will tell. I've always preferred Endurance to Vitality, but I'll have to see how often I end up trading hits in this one.

Vumsy, thanks for the class catch...even though I've gotta restart my blood now. The only reason I'm going 10 strength on the blood is for the Reiter, its blood scaling sucks but hey, seems like he should use the RH gun sometime. But it looks like the Professional would be one stat lower on Arcane than the Waste of Skin...no?
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby Vumsy » Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:25 am

Yeah, but it's one 4 wasted points in strength opposed to 1 wasted point in arcane. Nothing wrong with having those 14 strength, but like I said, few skill weapons and no bloodtinge weapons require 14 strength, if you have that much strength might as well push it to 30 for the cannon.
I figured that one out a little latte as well so like you I'm kinda salty, WE MUST ALL RESTART OUR BLOOD BUILDS!

EDIT:
My bad, gotta stop posting at forums before my morning rituals. Got classes mixed up.

Anyway, yeah, you'll be one stat lower in arcane, but when it comes to 1-2 SL's it's mostly preference.
Reason I prefer waste of skin and the 9 arcane is simply due to helping out grinding and to firebomb cheese bosses, as well as not having to level up strength ever. I think I'll also level up that last point to get 10 arcane for those sweet even numbers.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby nyyppa » Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:14 pm

Sup.

So are you guys positive that SL125 works well with Bloodborne? I've just read some opinions about 125 being too high (for now); like reaching "too" many soft/hardcaps easily if you go that high. Of course no one can be dead set on the so called meta at this point yet, just checking for opinions and stuff.

I haven't played the game yet, actually just ordered it (and a PS4..) today, but of course I have to start sticking my nose into things already.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby Juli » Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:40 pm

plaintomato wrote:Looks like variety is going to come this time more from equips than builds.

Demon's Souls was a lot like this, most people just used the exact same cookie-cutter builds and were known for the weapons they used, rather than their builds. I vastly prefer it this way. Once you pick the weapons and spells you want to use, buildmaking is mostly just math. The simpler the "do math to get most optimal spread" part of buildmaking is, the better.

It might be best to stop at 25 for scaling stats. I was looking at some damage numbers that got posted on /bbg/ and scaling drops off pretty hard after 25. It was really incomplete data, so I'm not entirely convinced yet that 25 is the best stopping point, but one weapon had +264 damage at 25 strength, then +304 at 50 strength. Unfortunately that's all I remember, and I don't have the link to the rest of the data on-hand, and assuming AR and defense works the same as previous titles, 40 extra damage could still be a significant % increase to your damage. I suspect also that the weapon had a lot of +damage bloodgems on it, I doubt very much that +264 all came from scaling stats. Something to think on, though. It'd be great if we could get more testing on this. *wink* *nudge* *cry because I can't do it myself*

@nyyppa I think 125 is perfect if people are aiming to hit 50 in a scaling stat on pure scaling builds. I think if it's worth hitting 50 vit and 50 in a scaling stat, that's a perfect balance. My concern for 125 would be if it's better to just drop 25 points from scaling and gouge vit to 75, that would be bad IMO. I'd like whatever SL results in the highest damage:health ratio, because from what I've seen of the PvP (mostly low-level stuff) damage in this game's PvP is really low, except bone marrow'd cannon which one-shots people. I hope at higher levels when you've got all your bloodgems that the PvP is more lethal, because what I've seen so far, you're hitting people for like 10% of their health usually.

I don't think hitting too many soft caps is a problem, I think it's a great thing. I mostly see this logic touted by people who want you to have to think harder about your build or make trade-offs for more diverse builds or w/e, and that being able to hit all your soft-caps makes buildmaking too easy and homogeneous. I think that logic is kinda nonsense.

For starters, I don't think lowering the SL makes figuring out builds any harder. It's pretty trivial to figure out your stat spread at any SL. At the lowest SLs, it's "minimum requirements for stuff I want to use, and then 30 vitality." From there you add, in order: increase endurance until you're comfortable, get 25 in a scaling stat, get 50 vit, then either more scaling or more endurance depending on preference, or more vitality if you're going for vit-gouge. This will cover you all the way from the lowest SLs up to 125.

And my other problem with that logic is that, even if it is correct, I don't care about buildmaking being hard. Actually I want it to be as easy as possible. I don't want to think at all about where my stats are going, I just want to put them in the right place and get to fighting as soon as possible. I'd rather win a match because I was the more skilled player, not because I optimized my build better than my opponent. So if the logic of "lower SL makes buildmaking harder" was correct, then I'd want to avoid it like the plague.

It's possible the people you saw arguing for lower SL weren't using this argument of "it makes buildmaking more challenging" and that I just made a huge strawman, but I'd be surprised if that were the case. Almost 100% of the time that I see people argue that hitting all your softcaps is a bad thing, it's because they want more challenging buildmaking, or think it will lead to more diverse builds.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby DidoRumbus » Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:40 pm

@juli,nyyppa One of the arguments going around now is that the endurance soft cap is not necessary -- drop end to 20 and the initial 125 estimates come to 105 or a nice clean SL 100. I can certainly understand not needing 40 END on all builds -- you can do what, like 10 consecutrive rolls at 20 END? Not to mention hunter bone... But I just haven't played enough PVP yet (or found all of the weapons yet) to have an opinion one way or the other.

That said, I'm doing 125 for my first build -- STR/ARC. I have something like this in mind: Cruel Fate 50/30/40/10/5/40. Main weapon is currently Tonitrus (at +7, 25 STR, and 25 ARC, It's at over 600 AR buffed). Just need to find more artifacts! Tiny tonitrus is good support, but I'm not at end game yet and not sure what else is out there.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby Ilkar » Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:30 pm

I'd tend to agree with what Juli has said above, with what little testing and theorycrafting and playing I've done (mostly over on Reddit for the time being) it seems like softcapping and keeping a relatively low SL is going to be the way to go, even just from a mathematical standpoint.

It's possible to reach a high degree of effectiveness with a 25/25 Str/Skill split and sub-40 End, although as has already been said a lot of this is going to come down to the gems in the end.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby plaintomato » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:34 pm

Stat-wise this looks very similar to Dark Souls to me, where you're going to see crowds at 100 and 120-125, with plenty of play in-between and a broader fan-base than Demon's had. 100 is relatively tight, and 125 is feeling fairly generous. The range will accommodate both sides of the build-making arguments Juli was talking about. I'm comfortable with that, and just glad that the Soul Memory sh** from DkS2 is gone.

For me the big confusion is where PVP is going in general. It feels a little confined, and has high gank-squad probability. I'm just hoping there's a solid area or system in place somewhere that's going to facilitate people just looking for fair and fun match-ups to go along with those natural invasions. Please please please let there be an arena hidden somewhere, or an area that just cries out "I am the new 4-1".
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby louislogic47 » Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:39 pm

Vumsy wrote:For the Blood build you generally want to go Waste of Skin as a starting class. None of the bloodtinge weapons require over 10 STR except cannon which require 30 STR.

Bloody hipster build:

SL: 124

VIT: 50
END: 40
STR: 10
SKL: 25
BLD/BLT (what to call it?): 40
ARC: 9

R1: Chikage R2: Rifle Spear/RaiterHaterPallasch
L1: Evelyn L2: Whatever floats your boat.

Edit: Nvm
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby Astrichthyes » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:40 pm

My proposed str build:

Military veteran

50vit
31end
50str
13skl
25bld
6arc

Kirkhammer + tonitrus/saw cleaver/Hunter axe/Logarius wheel
Cannon + blunderbuss

You can easily go cruel fate for base bld and increased arcane (25 arc with remainder in end)

As much as I wish Stake driver was a solid strength weapon, I think it is better left on a quality build.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby CptCosmic » Wed Apr 01, 2015 8:08 am

holy blade is overrated, it is slow and easy to riposte. for some reason my saw cleaver deals more damage with the same stats and gem setups. it looks like there are hidden modifiers of some sort. saw cleaver also works better in pvp because you can dash hit nonstop with its low stamina costs and fast attack speed.

arcane built can be played from the beginning without issues. you start with cruel fate, invest into vit/end early, as long as you upgrade a single weapon of choice and use it all time your damage will be fine. molotovs can be used in emergency for tough fights. "rush" to nightmares frontier, the first monsters you encounter here (the beasts with torches sitting in front of graves) drop bolt and fire gems. steamroll the rest of the game because most enemies you encounter are weak or neutral to fire, for the minority of fire resistant switch to bolt.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby DidoRumbus » Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:09 pm

CptCosmic wrote:holy blade is overrated, it is slow and easy to riposte. for some reason my saw cleaver deals more damage with the same stats and gem setups. it looks like there are hidden modifiers of some sort. saw cleaver also works better in pvp because you can dash hit nonstop with its low stamina costs and fast attack speed.

arcane built can be played from the beginning without issues. you start with cruel fate, invest into vit/end early, as long as you upgrade a single weapon of choice and use it all time your damage will be fine. molotovs can be used in emergency for tough fights. "rush" to nightmares frontier, the first monsters you encounter here (the beasts with torches sitting in front of graves) drop bolt and fire gems. steamroll the rest of the game because most enemies you encounter are weak or neutral to fire, for the minority of fire resistant switch to bolt.

Yeah, saw cleaver is great, that trick L1 extension has a mean attack multiplier too. I'm not sure how it stacks up vs end-game gear though, and how much you can improve its scaling with runes. I need to do some chalice runs or something my runes are shit lol.

I started arcane (cruel fate) - the increased drops really help you out with blood. Things really started coming together after
the healing church workshop (drop to the very bottom and go through the streets to find your first arcane rune, mine's been fire+ on both characters so far).
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby Juli » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:57 am

CptCosmic wrote:holy blade is overrated, it is slow and easy to riposte. for some reason my saw cleaver deals more damage with the same stats and gem setups. it looks like there are hidden modifiers of some sort. saw cleaver also works better in pvp because you can dash hit nonstop with its low stamina costs and fast attack speed.

There definitely are hidden modifiers, the mini-guide that came with the game listed them for some of the weapons. I think the starting weapons and saw spear, but nothing else.

I took a peek at some moveset videos, and Saw Cleaver looked incredible when transformed. Really long range, and some very fast, sweeping moves. I was not planning on using Saw Cleaver much, I thought it'd be some kinda janky halberd type thing, but after seeing the moveset video, damn. I'll probably grab it for my starter weapon.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby ValkyriePROfail » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:12 pm

Sl 125 seems unnecessarily high due to the fact that 20 end is more than enough for most weapons plus there are runes that increase stamina 10% and 15%, they stack and are obtainable via normal playthrough. Sl 100-110 is more than enough for the builds posted above. Also softcaps are pretty solid with overpowered gems found in depth 5 dungeons, and not.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby Vumsy » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:49 pm

I'm honestly not sure where I stand on the competetive pvp SL. Since diminishing returns work as they do now and stamina costs for rolls being as low as they are. Lower SL makes sense, but doesn't solve any problems. Aside from a few management aspects, after SL 50 it's the same. More levels = more damage and HP. It takes forever to kill people eitherway. At higher levels vials scale pretty obnoxiously, so it takes longer to kill people who heal, they can be parried though, also Chikage's flat health drain only becomes manageable at 40-50 vit.
I dunno... At one hand SL 120 pvp might suffer from being stale fights where people slap their thigh's as much as they slap eachothers faces. There's also the dread of arcane-quality builds everywhere.
At lower levels Chikage and Tonitrus won't be viable due to being above average stat investment heavy and Kirk hammer and the likes suffer hard when faced with a low stamina pool.

Also, if no one finds a consistant way to organize phantom vs phantom pvp, invader can take +30%hp runes and covenant rune of choice, while host only has covenant rune. This is for ORGANIZED PvP though.

EDIT: If someone gets lucky with a root chalice dungeon and share a 15%hp rune, you can get two of those and have one rune and one covenant rune of choice.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby Astrichthyes » Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:02 pm

I actually think the saw spear is a better overall weapon than the cleaver. I've played with it in pvp and it has done quite well for me. The damage modifier seems quite similar to the saw cleaver, but I'll do some testing on it. Overall, I think the kirkhammer is much better than the holy blade with the exception of the 2h damage type. Blunt damage is actually less powerful than slash, as far as I've seen. This is why the saw weapons outdamage the Hunter axe and holy blade can outdamage an equally powerful kirk
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby ValkyriePROfail » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:12 am

I think there is a quite consensus of 110 being a proper meta level. Even 100 seems to be viable for most builds at 50 vit or really close. Hybridations with softcaps are perfectly fine due to the existance of gems and 110 seems to give a considerable freedom over 100 in this regard. 40 end plus 25% estamina increase (two runes) make stamina usage a joke with little to none punishment with over 200 points to waste endlessly. Imo stat sacrifice is a must in pvp and a lower meta grants some less abuse of broken stuff like runes and gems.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby bialy0021 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:38 am

professional is the best for bloodtinge build as long as youre planning to invest some points in skill too. it starts with 9str and 8arc (flamesprayer/rosmarinus option). most use chikage and iirc it requires 14 skill. 1 point 'wasted' in skill vs 1 in arc.

atm sl125 seems way too high. quite frankly sl100 is plenty: i had a testing q build (with arcane splash to test low req hunter tools, sic!) below sl100.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby Vumsy » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:03 am

Going full bloodtinge isn't worth it, you'll have to two-hand Chikage all the time. Better to go Skill Bloodtinge hybrid so your one-handed attacks deal damage.
33/33>14/50
And you won't use flame sprayer as Evelyn deals 250+ chip damage to opponents.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby bialy0021 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:26 am

that was an example - see 'wasted' point. in any case professional is the class you should pick.

also, from what i hear chikage 1h scaling and dmg arent great anyway. Evelyn is capable of dealing around 700 or even more (with bone marrow ash).
as for sprayer its better to have it than not and its available early in the game, unlike evelyn.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby Jumilaattori » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:26 am

See you soon guys :)

B pm me your ps4 tag or do they transfer or wtf..
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby bialy0021 » Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:29 am

youre alive! \o/

same psn, same psn ids :)

come come, game is awesome as far as pve goes and pvp is fun and can be pretty intense. prolly not gonna top ds due to few reasons but... its just fun :)
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby ValkyriePROfail » Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:49 am

In organized pvp host vs vader, host can just use blood bullet (up on D-pad) which sacrifices 30% of his hp, exactly the hp invader got removed. In other words, phantom vs phantom
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby Jumilaattori » Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:14 am

Found a good package deal otherwise I´d bought it tuesday, maybe 10 days wait now. Sorry for missing the tourney.

100 or 110. 115 or 125 sounds cosmetics :)
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby Kokurokoki » Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:48 am

100 in my opinion already feels incredibly high. I've scrabbled up a few builds on paper and from the numbers there really is no point in going over 100. This is especially the case when bloodgems are equally vital to adding additional damage.

For single-stat builds:
- You can hit 50 in HP and 30 in Endurance while also hitting 50 in your main stat and easily have enough points left over to buff up your secondary stat to the minimum requirements for whichever weapon you need.

For dual-stat builds:
- You can easily hit 50 VIt and 30 END and the soft-caps for your two stats with points left over. The base quality build with 25/25 STR/SKI has 17 whopping points left over to further buff themselves for more damage or supplement their health and endurance (especially for Ludwig's which needs more stamina for its second form).

- This is balanced out by the fact that dual-stat builds cannot hit the hardcap in either respective stat without sacrificing health or endurance to do so.

So honestly there is no point in going over 100 since hitting that number literally gives you everything you will ever need to make your build. Each build has access to at least 3 different weapons, which allows you to mess around with different playstyles, and in the case of Arcane builds that number jumps up significantly since you only need to hit the minimum requirements and then buff said weapon with fire/lighting/arcane damage gems.

I would even argue that we drop it down to 80-90 since then you really have to play with your points and decide whether getting extra damage is worth losing health and Endurance over. But I've heard arguments against it since people are afraid of vitality-gouge builds dominating the PvP. The 100 cap also serves to equalize all players, so that they instead rely on skill rather than simply pumping stats like no tomorrow. Both players have the same HP (barring runes) and END, and their weapons are all going to deal similar damage (minus gems).

So in conclusion, I would say 90-105 is the PvP range should players decide to organize PvP events.

EDIT: I'm also going to point out that I didn't take into account Hunter's Tools... although you can sacrifice some HP and Endurance into your Arcane stat to be able to use them. All builds at 100 peak with extra points left behind for hunter's tools.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby DidoRumbus » Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:17 am

Now that I'm familiar with most of the weapons and tools, I also feel that 100 is more reasonable. Here are some basic builds at SL 100 (legend is VIT/END/STR/SKL/BLD/ARC). All builds have sacrificed END from our early builds with 40, which I think is just fine, but they also have maxed VIT and the primary damage stat.

STR basic: 50/24/50/13/-/- (violent past, military vet)
SKL basic: 50/25/10/50/-/- (troubled childhood, professional)
BLD basic: 50/18/10/14/50/- (lone survivor)
ARC basic: 50/17/16/12/-/50 (cruel fate)

STR/SKL hybrid is also viable at 100, but you can't maximize damage stats. 25/25 as a minimum, but there are enough points to go 30/30 or 40/25 even if you drop END by 5:

STR/SKL hybrid 1: 50/27/30/30/-/- (military vet)
STR/SKL hybrid 2: 50/22/40/25/-/- (military vet)

The basic BLD build has minimum stats to use chikage and maxed BLD scaling. This means great damage in transformed mode (with enough VIT to manage the HP drain), but terrible damage in base mode (since base SKL). Another option would be to raise both SKL and BLD for better versatility at the cost of less blood damage. Meet soft caps of 25 in both, then 10 additional points to divide amongst END/SKL/BLD.

BLD/SKL hybrid: 50/22/10/30/30/- (professional)

The basic arcane build is a little light on END. Since the best tool requires only 40 ARC, another option would be something like this:

ARC alternative: 50/27/16/12/-/40 (cruel fate)

Splashing 15 arcane on a physical build is a great option. In addition to extra item discovery, this lets you use the old hunter's bone (rolling), empty phantasm shell (weapon buff 80 AR), and beast roar (AoE pushback). Note that some weapons can't be buffed (i.e. chikage).

STR with ARC splash: 50/20/50/10/-/15 (cruel fate)
SKL with ARC splash: 50/20/10/50/-/15 (cruel fate)
STR/SKL with ARC splash: 50/20/30/30/0/15 (cruel fate)

And that pretty much wraps it up, don't think I'm forgetting anything? I guess another option is to splash 18 BLD for evelyn, but not sure how that compares to basic pistol? Few weapons/spells and no optimizing for %weight makes builds pretty basic.

Kokurokoki wrote: You can hit 50 in HP and 30 in Endurance...

Almost, in reality END will be in the mid 20s as above (which is fine IMO).
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby ValkyriePROfail » Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:59 am

100 feels good on pure builds. 110 gives a little more freedom for hybrids and fancy stuff which is always nice. I find 20 end enough in most cases. Ludwig and kirk might need one or two stamina increase runes or a little stat bump tho.

Sadly many ppl are unfriendly to a proper stamina usage and will still go 120-125.
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Re: Some Level 125’s to kick off discussion

Postby Astrichthyes » Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:13 pm

My current pure strength build:

Sl 100 violent past
49v
22e
50s
13d
6b
10a

*Vit was left at 49 because the extra point only gave 11hp. While the extra end gave 3 stamina.

Logarius' wheel + kirkhammer/ tonitrus
Cannon + Hunter pistol/blunderbuss

I was actually surprised to see how fast and how much reach LW had, but I'm loving it outright. Great damage, good moveset, and excellent stun capability. This build is solid and would become incredible with an extra 25 points to spend in stamina and hp. But, like Valk said, 105-110 would probably be the best bet to allow hybridization without completely hindering it. With an extra 10 points, my setup would look like this:

Sl110 cruel fate
50v
27e
50s
13d
5b
15a

At 15a, Hunter's bone and empty phantasm shell become an option. Taking the sl down to 105 would scratch 5e off
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Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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