The Pure Souls Fight Club

Talk about the various online aspects of Bloodborne. Including Co-Op and PvP.

The Pure Souls Fight Club

Postby Astrichthyes » Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:53 pm

This club was originally made by me, Astri, to promote balanced and skillful play. After a couple of weeks of dormancy, and after arctic-dan told me he was forming a group to assist and bring the Bloodborne community together, I offered up my glyph as an arena for our fight club. He liked the rules so much when we played under them, he only changed one. As of now, this glyph is no longer mine and I hope everyone who loves the pvp of this game as much as we do drops by for some fun fights.

Location: Sinister Ihyll Root Chalice closed glyph c2zig77r
The arena is in the second room past the Layer 1 lantern.

Guidelines:

-SL100-120; I recommend 110 for build balance.
-Lead Elixir is banned.
-Bone marrow ash is banned.
-Blood vial limit is 2 for host and 3 for phantoms.
-Choir bell counts as 2 vials and may not be used to exceed the vial limit.
-Host must make bullets to start the battle at 70% hp and guarantee total hp equality.
-One gem is allowed per weapon
-Damage gems are banned on guns. Pulsing gems are acceptable.
-Flamesprayer and Rosemarinus may not be upgraded past +6.
-No Clawmarks runes.

Suggestions:
-Gunspam is frowned upon here. Try to limit your firearm use and focus more on your melee weapon.
-If you run from a fight, you will get trolled and/or blocked and/or banned from the club.
-If you encounter someone breaking the rules of the glyph, please remind them of the rules or send them the link to this thread and block them if they do not change their course of action. They do not need to interfere with our sessions and this will shut down any deliberate trolling.
-Please understand that the rules have been torn apart and examined by myself and many others. Every rule has a purpose and works toward our goal of balance. If you have concerns with any of them, please provide an explanation via PM.
-Bow, Buff, Fight, gg. Respect is mandatory.

This FC is also posted here: https://www.reddit.com/r/bloodborne/com ... ight_club/

I'm pretty sure that covers it. All players are welcome. Good Hunting!

Add either of us if you're interested in joining so we can invite you to the club chat.
Pure Souls group PSN's: astrichthyes3, astrichthyes, arctic_dan
Twitch: arctic_dan
Last edited by Astrichthyes on Fri Oct 23, 2015 4:35 am, edited 18 times in total.
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby arctic_dan » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:05 pm

Im all in to support you Astri, I would only be opposed to the healing. In Demon's Souls tourny's we were allowed 3 heals. When your given the permission to heal, your not concentrating on the battle anymore your trying to count how many times you or your opponent has healed. I would say no heal. or at most 1 heal.
I'm anxious to see how the lighting works down there.
Also NpC and I were talking that it may be difficult to work out matches down there using passwords and conflicting oaths. Maybe a dungeon is still the best way to go. Like a sinister dungeon would be perfect. NpC was saying he had a good Hintertomb sinister chalice open for this kind of stuff.
A host with 2 guests would be best but its so unpredictable with the bells and connection. They are all things we can try to set up a good FC with some good rules that will keep the group alive and together.
O and also we need to figure out a kick ass name for this FC. This is for sure the key ingredient for it to survive and to distribute fear into people. lol
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Tsmp » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:15 pm

Why should healing to offset blood bullets be necessary? If a player is in a situation where they burn through 20 bullets in one fight, I daresay they may be spamming. The only time I could consider it not spamming is if someone wanted to cast ACB three times in a row, but if you're doing that and still haven't killed the other player then I wouldn't say bullet count is your problem. If you're worried about an Arcane build running out of bullets from one fight to the next, they're going to do that anyways and there really isn't a solution to the issue aside from giving them the option to unsummon and restock.

Also, if you're going to allow healing at all, remember that hosts heal more per vial than invaders/summons do. It would be inherently unbalanced in the host's favor.

Would lanterns really be necessary? Last I checked, summons and invaders glow. It's not noticeable under normal circumstances, but it should be noticeable when there is no ambient light.

I'm worried about Nightmare of Mensis being such a popular area for invasions, especially at that level range. More likely than not, we're going to get our invasion slot hogged up by some random invader who has no idea what's going on and either runs around the level for twenty minutes searching or else finds us and attacks the host. Unless you're okay with organizing fights between a blue and a purple using passwords and runes, it's going to be an issue.

If you want to completely rule out the random invader factor and also allow for two invaders + two summons, a sinister closed-shared dungeon would be best. Unfortunately, that's highly, highly unlikely to have the same kind of fighting arena that an abyss brawl would, and to be honest I'm very intrigued by this possibility. I wonder if ACB would even explode? Does empty black nothingness count as a floor for impact explosion purposes? What would happen if someone dropped a penny?

Considering the popularity of Mensis for random invasions, it would be best to organize it purely using summoning bells and oath runes. Probably get a list of everyone who wants to attend, then divide them equally between Vileblood and Executioner and set a password. The only problem with this setup is it'd be possible to participate with a grossly overleveled character... although, I've been meaning to test just how well the new host/summon scaling mechanics work out.

I'll end up participating no matter how you want to do it, of course. These are just my suggestions.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby DidoRumbus » Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:22 pm

Hey Astri, I'm down. Add me on PSN, I'm usually around on weekends and occasionally during the week.

Some comments on rules:

Astrichthyes wrote:SL100-120; I want to make it SL 100/110 cap, but i'd like to hear some opinions on this.

I think 100-120 is a good range. IMO 100 is a bit restrictive on some builds, 110 is the sweet spot, and 120 allows for fun hybrids while letting pures have a bit more health or stamina. Now 150 that is another story haha.

Astrichthyes wrote:A torch and/or lantern must be active on both fighters at all times unless both agree to fight in the dark. I chose the Abyss for the sheer volume of unobstructed fighting space and high contrast to make spells, buffed weapons, molotovs, and torches stand out.

Why abyss and not chalice? Can get a fairly large circular area, but granted spells won't look as cool haha. My main complaint would be lantern required, -ve stamina regen. Torch not really an option when it means giving up firearm.

Astrichthyes wrote:Lead elixir is banned.

Yup.

Astrichthyes wrote:Firearms are not to be spammed or used exessively.

I'm not a fan of policing "excessive" use of firearms. First, it's going to lead to bitching over what is excessive (like BS in DkS1). Second, high level play has evolved around countering gun-spam (also like BS in DkS1). For example, dash-spam, or shield. Also, most builds will use high phys/blood armour (cainhurst, knight, yahar, hunter, 7% def rune). This reduces firearm damage, but it also makes arcane more viable. Lastly there is the issue of heal punishing.

Astrichthyes wrote:Blood vials are not to be used excessively unless it is to make bullets. We don't want 20 vial fights. Try to keep it under 5 for healing purposes.

No gem restrictions? In that case healing should definitely be allowed! I would just put a hard limit on vials, like 3 or 5.

Astrichthyes wrote:No Clawmarks runes.

Yup.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Astrichthyes » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:10 pm

For healing, I am thinking 3-5 is ideal. Less than 3 will just mean shorter battles, which will be terrible if there are no gem restrictions. Like DeS, I think we'll have to have hosts because of the hp discrepancy. The only time hp is ever equal for everyone is in a cursed dungeon, which is just asking for extremely short battles. Arcane builds, Tinge builds, and anything using Cannon will dominate under these conditions. To simplify things, it could be just 3-5 vials, regardless of how many times you make bullets, but i don't like the idea of arcane builds having limited casts because using anything but Augur or Gloves is going to eat through your bullets rather quickly.

The lack of restrictions on gems is for a few reasons. The first is that we are, indeed, in a popular area for the simple reason that we may be able to get some of those invaders to join, thereby growing the club's popularity and increasing its longevity. Anyone not affiliated with the club will be using full gems. No gems would be absurd because it limits arcane weapons to Wheel, Toni, BoM, and BB. One or two gems would be tough to enforce because, in the end, people are going to use what they want to use. The gem setups that i really don't want to see are flat arc Wheel and Tinge Chikage.

The abyss is the only battleground in the entire game, including the dungeons, where you have absolutely nothing in the way and it's the largest place to fight. I've had a battle down there and it was great besides the fact that the host was using the dark to his advantage and spamming his vials while i did not have my lantern ready. While you're down in the abyss, no one can invade or be summoned, unfortunately, but i don't think this should be a problem if we properly coordinate our efforts. If we do have hosts, then the host should be a VB and the blue and purple phantoms should be EX to ensure no rune disadvantage. If, after trying it out, we find this location to be too difficult, we can always switch over to a dungeon.

The name of this FC, if it remains in the chosen location, shall be something along the lines of The Abyss Walkers FC. Kickass enough for ya?

SL is 100-120 because i know most players are either 100 or 120, but i fully agree that 110 is the perfect number. Arcane is just too tight at 100 while all physical builds are maxed out and ready to rock at about 80-100. If enough players agree to go 110, I'm all for it.

Excessive firearm use is using gunshots as much as regular attacks. I've seen it where it's once or twice after every dodge until they get a visceral, which often results in a KO, especially if it's a Tinge build chipping at you constantly. It's not a skill so much as mashing. I'd like to see this down to a minimum because it will make players bitter and cause them to argue and quit. No limit on this would simply cause it to devolve into gunspam and conflict. I understand that higher pvp has developed to work around this, but not a lot of players will see it that way. Using DkS as an example, BS was so easy to abuse that it made the whole fight center around it the way guns are now. It may be part of the game, but it detracts from what it can be.

For the stamina regen issue, it's really not an issue because the handicap will be universal. You either use the lantern and have a stamina penalty or use the torch and miss out on having a firearm. If summoned players do indeed glow enough to eliminate the need for a lantern or torch, then this rule can be omitted entirely except for the host, which would help offset the hp advantage if the host did decide to fight.


After a few sessions to test the viability of the Abyss out, i'll report back and decide if we stick with the Abyss or have to move on to a dungeon. If we do a dungeon, I think it should be a closed glyph and we can share it with whomever is interested in the club
Last edited by Astrichthyes on Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Tsmp » Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:48 pm

In regards to lanterns and stamina regen penalties, that got patched out ages ago. It won't be a problem for this FC.

In regards to oath rune mechanics, if the host is a vileblood and the summonees are executioners, then ALL summoned executioners will spawn as purple. Purples cannot attack purples, which would be a major problem. The executioner bonus to healing vials is so insignificant that I hardly think it'd matter, just a meager 1%.

If you want everyone to have the exact same oath rune bonus and still be able to fight each other, well... if you don't mind unsummoning and resummoning people until the stars align correctly, you could have everybody (host included) equip the hunter of hunters rune. As far as I can tell, the Hunter rune only has a chance of going hostile against a host instead of being guaranteed like vileblood/executioner. I think it's somewhere around 30% though, so it'll take some patience and trial/error. It'd be a good way to gather data on how the fuck the thing works, though.

Again, much easier to just divide people into vileblood/executioner and ignore the 1% bonus to vial healing.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Astrichthyes » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:03 pm

Tsmp wrote:In regards to lanterns and stamina regen penalties, that got patched out ages ago. It won't be a problem for this FC.

In regards to oath rune mechanics, if the host is a vileblood and the summonees are executioners, then ALL summoned executioners will spawn as purple. Purples cannot attack purples, which would be a major problem. The executioner bonus to healing vials is so insignificant that I hardly think it'd matter, just a meager 1%.

If you want everyone to have the exact same oath rune bonus and still be able to fight each other, well... if you don't mind unsummoning and resummoning people until the stars align correctly, you could have everybody (host included) equip the hunter of hunters rune. As far as I can tell, the Hunter rune only has a chance of going hostile against a host instead of being guaranteed like vileblood/executioner. I think it's somewhere around 30% though, so it'll take some patience and trial/error. It'd be a good way to gather data on how the fuck the thing works, though.

Again, much easier to just divide people into vileblood/executioner and ignore the 1% bonus to vial healing.


Actually, what i had in mind is that the VB host could summon 1 or 2 EX players while another player invades. This would function a lot like the DeS summons with the only difference being that the host is hostile to all players instead of just the invader
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Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Magicisoverrated » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:37 pm

Astrichthyes wrote:-Lead Elixir is banned. Weapons like 2h Chikage do not stun against it and are too powerful with it in use.
-Blue Elixir is banned.


Why?

Astrichthyes wrote:-Firearms are not to be spammed or used exessively.


This is impossible to regulate, if somoene double taps trigger would that be spamming

Astrichthyes wrote:-Blood vials are not to be used excessively unless it is to make bullets. We don't want 20 vial fights. Try to keep it under 5 for healing purposes.


Why allow healing at all?

Astrichthyes wrote:-No Clawmarks runes. OHKO viscerals are not cool.


sacrifices are made to use visceral runes, it's kind of like DeS's Fatal upgrade path.



Bloodborne PvP has plenty of active and open fight clubs already, i don't see the point in setting up our own super exclusive fight club, you just kind of have to be water in this game, if someone's idea of fair play is different you have to roll with it, making our own fight club will last for a bit but i really don't see the point.

Honestly i don't believe Bloodborne PvP shouldn't be taken very seriously imo, it's not really possible to advance as a player, and too much emphasis is placed on gem farming. I would think if anything should be banned in a "legit" fight club it should be gem enhancements..
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Astrichthyes » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:03 am

Lead elixir is banned because it gives weapons like chikage a huge advantage while other weapons get a severe disadvantage. There's no reason a Logwheel 2h r2 should bounce off of a LE user, but a Chikage 2h r1 doesn't. It's not at all intuitive. I would be absolutely fine with the item if it only created hyperarmor against gunshots and spells, but the recoil thing really doesn't work because you may have some crazy damage values from artificially created counterhits.

I'm against banning all gems because, as i said, it limits arcane builds to a very small selection of weapons when they are designed to use just about anything with a slight cost in damage potential. I wouldn't mind 1-2 gems because that would be fair, but it'd be impossible to enforce. As it is, it may be asking a lot to have a regular following for this FC when most of the game is stagnant.

No healing means super short fights. Unlike the previous games, healing can be stopped and punished if you anticipate it with a well-timed gunshot. I think 3-5 is fair overall because it's not going to drag the battle out for too long, but should give them a bit more longevity to help make up for the time it can take to summon everyone.

Gunspam is hard to regulate. I'm simply discouraging it because no one likes fighting someone who shoots as much as they dodge and rarely attacks for fear of getting hit with a visceral.

I don't think the Clawmarks runes are fair to bring along because the sacrifice is easy to overcome. I've seen battles and participated in battles where one player is losing terribly and healing, but one lucky gunshot resulted in a OHKO against the winning player.
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Magicisoverrated » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:34 am

Astrichthyes wrote:Lead elixir is banned because it gives weapons like chikage a huge advantage while other weapons get a severe disadvantage. There's no reason a Logwheel 2h r2 should bounce off of a LE user, but a Chikage 2h r1 doesn't. It's not at all intuitive. I would be absolutely fine with the item if it only created hyperarmor against gunshots and spells, but the recoil thing really doesn't work because you may have some crazy damage values from artificially created counterhits.


Lead Elixir makes someone a free target in my experience.

Astrichthyes wrote:I'm against banning all gems because, as i said, it limits arcane builds to a very small selection of weapons when they are designed to use just about anything with a slight cost in damage potential. I wouldn't mind 1-2 gems because that would be fair, but it'd be impossible to enforce. As it is, it may be asking a lot to have a regular following for this FC when most of the game is stagnant.


Gems are one of the top 3 reasons BB PvP falls through, and banning them would be one of the only ways to approach anything considered "legit" in this game. As it stands a saw blade can kill someone with max HP runes in about 3 hits, and that thing is quite fast. it's like everyone is running around with hyper mode passively, it's something that needs to be banned. I agree about allowing it so that more people join, but then what's the point?

Astrichthyes wrote:No healing means super short fights. Unlike the previous games, healing can be stopped and punished if you anticipate it with a well-timed gunshot. I think 3-5 is fair overall because it's not going to drag the battle out for too long, but should give them a bit more longevity to help make up for the time it can take to summon everyone.


No Gems+No healing is actually a much longer format than you would think, without the damage boost the fights last about as long as one would normally last on DeS or DkS without shields. Yes healing can be stopped, but one should play without health vials in the first place imo.

Astrichthyes wrote:Gunspam is hard to regulate. I'm simply discouraging it because no one likes fighting someone who shoots as much as they dodge and rarely attacks for fear of getting hit with a visceral.

I don't think the Clawmarks runes are fair to bring along because the sacrifice is easy to overcome. I've seen battles and participated in battles where one player is losing terribly and healing, but one lucky gunshot resulted in a OHKO against the winning player.


As long as people aren't spamming heal or gunshots then visceral should never really be a problem. in fact because i know for a fact some people play on CRT TV's for that second advantage in being able to parry i don't open myself up to viscerial, this game is all about trading hits, anything less is punished.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Astrichthyes » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:00 am

In order to make gems fair, you'd have to limit it to 1 gem minimum, 2 max. No gems is a poor format to follow because it essentially limits arcane to Toni and LW. I totally agree that some gem setups can be extremely OP. Blunt LHB/Kirk will almost OHKO on a dh r1 and that's some pretty damnable stuff. I can test single gem and double gem formats to see how they perform and report back with my results. All i need is some test subjects and a couple hours to play around with it. As for healing, 3 isn't terrible. It was actually worse in DeS because the grass was faster to use, harder to punish, and fully healed you instead of the ~40% you get in BB. If gems are reduced to 1, then it may be a good route to take in allowing just 1 vial.

I discovered a few things in my Abyss pvp tonight.

1) ACB does hit the floor of the Abyss, but nothing else, so it still has much more damage potential than you'll get anywhere else.
2) Phantom players DO NOT have a glowing aura in the Abyss, so a torch or lantern would still be required.
3) You have to ring your bells in Mergo's Loft: Middle and take the elevators down to the Abyss because you can't access the Abyss until after defeating Micolash, AFAIK. There are 2 routes that seem the most promising:

MLM lamp>broken elevator>square elevator to the cleaver mommas>abyss

MLM lamp>broken elevator>elevator to ML: Base>square elevator to cleaver mommas>abyss.

Sadly, most of the elevators are single-rider, so getting to this location may be too tedious. If this is the case, i'll be setting up a dungeon with an obstacle-free and spacious arena ASAP, keep the glyph closed to keep out SRRC invaders, and share the glyph here. Sadly, the only way hp can be universally equal in this game is via cursed dungeons, which is out of the question because it will shorten duels by 20-50% or more and make spells and guns extremely powerful since they are essentially doubled in effectiveness.
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Magicisoverrated » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:28 am

Astrichthyes wrote:In order to make gems fair, you'd have to limit it to 1 gem minimum, 2 max. No gems is a poor format to follow because it essentially limits arcane to Toni and LW. I totally agree that some gem setups can be extremely OP. Blunt LHB/Kirk will almost OHKO on a dh r1 and that's some pretty damnable stuff. I can test single gem and double gem formats to see how they perform and report back with my results. All i need is some test subjects and a couple hours to play around with it. As for healing, 3 isn't terrible. It was actually worse in DeS because the grass was faster to use, harder to punish, and fully healed you instead of the ~40% you get in BB. If gems are reduced to 1, then it may be a good route to take in allowing just 1 vial.


That's just it though, do we allow players to use Gems just so that arcane can be viable in the face of getting nearly one shotted by some setups? Gems are entirely too overpowered to be considered legit, they break the game and the grind to get them makes making new characters for PvP -extremely- inaccessible, another one of BB's problems.

We are talking about a dueling club here yes? entirely different mindset from min/maxing to the point where you can kill someone in 1-2 hits, dueling clubs favor balance, it's not really weird to outright ban some things from legit play in a dueling society, look at hornet ring in DKS. IF people want to show up and troll people by playing that way then let them, or just make a password for the day and send a group message out.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby DidoRumbus » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:23 am

Astrichthyes wrote:Excessive firearm use is using gunshots as much as regular attacks. I've seen it where it's once or twice after every dodge until they get a visceral, which often results in a KO, especially if it's a Tinge build chipping at you constantly. It's not a skill so much as mashing. I'd like to see this down to a minimum because it will make players bitter and cause them to argue and quit.

As a counter argument, my main build is centred around rifle spear (50 skill, 25 tinge). The weapon requires constant shooting to be effective, with transform attacks etc. I'll usually go 10 bullets on a 1v1 fight, more if there is a lot of healing. Damage and speed are lower than 50 BT evelyn, but interrupt is more likely due to spread of shots. Is that excessive? I mean that sounds like gunspam right? I guess leave it up to host to make the call, but I'd be pretty bitter if people said not to shoot so much with rifle spear build. It's like saying don't press R1 so much, use more R2!

Astrichthyes wrote:No limit on this would simply cause it to devolve into gunspam and conflict.

Hard limit, I could accept, then at least it's not arbitrary. Just my thoughts on the rule though, either way I'll come out for some duels :)

Tsmp wrote:In regards to lanterns and stamina regen penalties, that got patched out ages ago.

That is awesome haha, had no idea. So no regen penalty now or just not significant? B/c it was huge before!

Magicisoverrated wrote:Bloodborne PvP has plenty of active and open fight clubs already, i don't see the point in setting up our own super exclusive fight club, you just kind of have to be water in this game, if someone's idea of fair play is different you have to roll with it, making our own fight club will last for a bit but i really don't see the point.

Reddit chalice is fine (or was, I used to frequent). Wikidot fc will be fun if some ppl show, at the least could make for some fun events. Gear-restricted fights sound interesting. I think 1 gem would not be so bad... Saws would have AR ~350 on str/skl, compared to ~550 with 3 gems. With good defences that should be pretty far from 1HKO even on wheel etc. Worth it anyway to at least make ARC possible, I like that ARC makes armour relevant.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Jumilaattori » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:33 am

I suggest you forget all these guidelines and let ppl play however they want. If some1 can spam over 10 vials in a single fight something is terribly wrong and the person allowing 10 vials should take a look in the mirror.

Imo its either gems and healing. No gems no healing.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Astrichthyes » Mon Aug 10, 2015 11:18 am

It looks like 1 gem will be the way to go. We would have to adjust healing to 1 or 3 vials and find the balance point.

I don't think 10 shots is a lot for a 2-3 minute fight. I'm used to seeing 20-25 in 60-90 seconds with no real attacks in between because they're fishing for a visceral like a DkS backstab

No guidelines would defeat the point of a fight club, in which case hizz becomes the better place to play
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Magicisoverrated » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:23 pm

Astrichthyes wrote:It looks like 1 gem will be the way to go. We would have to adjust healing to 1 or 3 vials and find the balance point.

I don't think 10 shots is a lot for a 2-3 minute fight. I'm used to seeing 20-25 in 60-90 seconds with no real attacks in between because they're fishing for a visceral like a DkS backstab

No guidelines would defeat the point of a fight club, in which case hizz becomes the better place to play


Agreed, people who want to fight without guidelines aren't participating in dueling. I mean i watched Dragon Ball Z growing up i understand the whole i want to be the most powerful in the universe thing but it really doesn't do anything to promote healthy dueling societies or player skill advancement.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Astrichthyes » Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:41 pm

Magicisoverrated wrote:
Astrichthyes wrote:No guidelines would defeat the point of a fight club, in which case hizz becomes the better place to play


Agreed, people who want to fight without guidelines aren't participating in dueling. I mean i watched Dragon Ball Z growing up i understand the whole i want to be the most powerful in the universe thing but it really doesn't do anything to promote healthy dueling societies or player skill advancement.

Exactly right. It becomes more about how powerful your gear is rather than skill. You can't even call it competitive PvP if it's a contest of who deals the most DPS or who can deal the most damage in a visceral or who takes advantage of broken things like lead elixir chikage.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Jumilaattori » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:07 pm

As an example:

I´d prefer JP rules in dks2. I prefer Jp rules in dks2.

-Salute
-No pre buffs pre salute
-All goes after salute(up to 1´s "honour" what to use

I go with opponent double buffs and I wait and watch, we fight, gg. Sometimes I buff once, sometimes I fire great bow. Sometimes all jump me, sometimes its gg.

What I prefer I don´ t enforce and in my exp the more the merrier = most versatility and best fights vs solid fighters and most importantly all have a merry time + all can join without negativity.

But it was just a suggestion, you can make more guidelines to having fun if it pleases.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Magicisoverrated » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:26 pm

Jumilaattori wrote:As an example:

I´d prefer JP rules in dks2. I prefer Jp rules in dks2.

-Salute
-No pre buffs pre salute
-All goes after salute(up to 1´s "honour" what to use

I go with opponent double buffs and I wait and watch, we fight, gg. Sometimes I buff once, sometimes I fire great bow. Sometimes all jump me, sometimes its gg.

What I prefer I don´ t enforce and in my exp the more the merrier = most versatility and best fights vs solid fighters and most importantly all have a merry time + all can join without negativity.

But it was just a suggestion, you can make more guidelines to having fun if it pleases.



Yea, i agree, and it certainly works in Dark Souls II because that game is pretty fair in terms of how broken it is. The player base of DKS2 has pretty much accepted that the game they play is broken at its core, but have fun playing it anyway, at least that's what i've encountered in my experience. There is no real community there, but even so some things are frowned upon, like double buffing, and i agree it's best to be like water.

But what we are talking about doing here is setting up a dueling society where in we all agree to a set of standards to promote the most competitive play possible, not random fights that we can all easily get elsewhere. I completely understand what you're saying Jumi but most of us here are interested in higher forms of competition? -not sure i worded that correctly but we aren't interested in a gear or build fest so much as we are interested in out playing each other.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Jumilaattori » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:06 pm

Hey dude an example of dks2:

Opponent has +2 rings/lvl advantage, +2 buffs, +poise,hp,def +setup

An example of des:

Opponents has +regen +setup +buff

and so on..

Using what you like and beating the odds is souls.It´s never fair and it ever was.

As I said it was just a suggestion and if you guys think that a long list of rules is required then go for it.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Magicisoverrated » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:19 pm

Jumilaattori wrote:Hey dude an example of dks2:

Opponent has +2 rings/lvl advantage, +2 buffs, +poise,hp,def +setup

An example of des:

Opponents has +regen +setup +buff

and so on..

Using what you like and beating the odds is souls.It´s never fair and it ever was.

As I said it was just a suggestion and if you guys think that a long list of rules is required then go for it.


Yea i understand what you're saying :)

In DKS2 nobody really seems to care what anyone uses, but things are certainly frowned upon, just that players have learned to accept whats broken and to blow off players in a polite manner. Dual buffing is not going to earn you very much respect, this is basically fact in most situations.

max regen setup in DeS was never "allowed" people ignored it but it was one of the best ways to troll people and claim that you did so with skill, i remember claiming that faith builds were a "feature" and trolling fights for 15 minutes through avoidance.

A dueling society is a society that operates in it's own bubble away from the game, in which we impose standards on each other to reach the most competitive play possible, we purposely limit ourselves and do not allow certain methods of play to reach this. In normal open play we all follow the method of low drama casual play, and we accept the differences in players. That is not what a dueling society is, and it's important to differentiate that before discussion on the matter can continue properly.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Jumilaattori » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:56 pm

Dks2 is everything goes, gg. Nothing is frowned upon. Its up to you how you play, which was my point and just a suggestion.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Magicisoverrated » Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:58 pm

Jumilaattori wrote:Dks2 is everything goes, gg. Nothing is frowned upon. Its up to you how you play, which was my point and just a suggestion.


Okay, but we aren't talking about DKS2 here, and we are talking about a dueling society, a group of players where not everything goes on purpose. It's a bit different from the open play you are used to.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Jumilaattori » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:15 pm

I see, like a tournament I admit no clue about tournaments.

Dks2 and des were an example. Like in bb, you got lesser runes and gems. And its gg with all goes.

:)

Jumilaattori wrote:Imo its either gems and healing. No gems no healing.


Jumilaattori wrote:As I said it was just a suggestion and if you guys think that a long list of rules is required then go for it.
For competitive play.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Magicisoverrated » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:22 pm

Jumilaattori wrote:I see, like a tournament I admit no clue about tournaments.



tournaments are a good example! you should come play with us so you can learn more about it :) , it's a much favorable format to open play in terms of competition. And what we are talking about in this thread is how we can impose "fair" restrictions players. In open play it's an anything goes format, but in dueling format things are a lot tighter on restrictions, typically players who are new or have desire to advance as players will seek out dueling clubs to find gaps in their styles to also become better players. It's a quality way to PvP and i think if you haven't given it a shot so far jumi you definitely should.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Jumilaattori » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:35 pm

Astrichthyes wrote:-A torch and/or lantern must be active on both fighters at all times unless both agree to fight in the dark. I chose the Abyss for the sheer volume of unobstructed fighting space and high contrast to make spells, buffed weapons, molotovs, and torches stand out.
No thx.

If jumi wants to use blue elixir jumi uses blue elixir.

BB 4-1 zone just after lamp, I got mid gems and runes. Hunter. Bow, fight starts all is good.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Flintheart » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:52 pm

BB 4-1 zone? What lamp?
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Jumilaattori » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:41 am

If memory serves its frontier. Lamp in a small cave, you move up to daylight and circle area with rocks around and a wolf sitting on ledge back to you.

Good space, not too spacy, not too tight and you can get stuck to rocks and pinned down.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Magicisoverrated » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:59 am

Astrichthyes wrote:-SL100-120; I want to make it SL 100/110 cap, but i'd like to hear some opinions on this.


120 is a more balanced meta than 100 is due to how bloodtinge works. But i was curious about how summoning works now?

If the host is lower level than a phantom he is summoning, say 20 levels lower, would the 120 phantoms stats be brought in line with a slvl 100? if it works properly then level cap may not even be needed. I have barely played since last patch so i'm not sure how it works.
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Re: Astri's Bloodborne Fight Club

Postby Astrichthyes » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:43 pm

Magicisoverrated wrote:
Astrichthyes wrote:-SL100-120; I want to make it SL 100/110 cap, but i'd like to hear some opinions on this.


120 is a more balanced meta than 100 is due to how bloodtinge works. But i was curious about how summoning works now?

If the host is lower level than a phantom he is summoning, say 20 levels lower, would the 120 phantoms stats be brought in line with a slvl 100? if it works properly then level cap may not even be needed. I have barely played since last patch so i'm not sure how it works.

I'm not sure. I've been getting some radically different echo amounts from invasions. Anywhere between 6k and 30k. Level cap may not be possible to enforce, even if the host is SL 100.

I'll be hosting tonight at 9pm PST to get some single gem duels going. Anyone interested in joining should ring their sinister or small bell with the Ex oath. I hope to see some nice battles tonight
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