Max level for PvP?

Talk about the various online aspects of Bloodborne. Including Co-Op and PvP.

Max level for PvP?

Postby Kokurokoki » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:40 am

Oroboro in his stream suggested level 100, but I've heard some people advocating for 120 and going as low as 75.

What are your thoughts on this?
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby nyyppa » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:06 am

So far my opinion is that level 100 should work just fine for PvP. I think most, if not all the builds that are dedicated to certain style of play can easily be made viable for that level bracket. If you want to have access to all the weapons, the hunter tools (which are essentially the spells in this game) while stil maintaining good HP and End, you'd obviously have to go higher, but of course that would affect the build variation in a negative way.

Most stats start to see diminishing returns after the 25 mark. I think it's unnecessary to have more than one stat somewhere as high as say, 50. Also stamina feels a bit different to the previous games, 20 endurance has felt to be enough in most cases. There's also runes, which kinda work like rings did before, they are active at all times (when equipped) and you can use these to boost your HP and stamina for example. The weapon gems can be used to tinker around with scaling and such. Equip burden is gone too so no need to waste stats to be able to wear something you like.

Also there are no weapons with absurdly high stat requirements anymore, afaik the one with the highest ones has a requirement of 30STR/13SKL, which isn't a whole lot. Rest of the weapons have like a half of that at most.

Of course my opinion can change over time, and obviously I want to be in the same bracket as most of the guys I'll play with, but for now 100 seems to be enough.
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby Tsmp » Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:54 am

This feels really, really weird to say, but my characters feel awfully powerful at just level 80. And looking at the vileblood register, there are a whole lot of people running around at level 80. So.

However, since leveling costs in Bloodborne are the same as in Demon's Souls and Dark Souls, I'd almost say level 120 should be a good range on just that alone.

There are a few things we'll need to know before deciding on a max level for pvp: what the actual summon and invasion ranges are, the full, unmodified 5-99 scaling of all weapons, what major breakpoints are worth hitting, that sort of thing. If, for example, "you need xxx hp to survive this OHK attack" ends up being necessary, then any level ranges that do not have range for that wouldn't really be viable for fair pvp.

It's only been 11-ish days and we're still finding new stuff, nobody knows anything yet.
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby QwertyBoredom122 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:53 pm

So far Sl100-120 seems to be pretty good, I personally "finished" my first build at Sl110 (a compromise between the two) which should work whichever level gets chosen as meta.
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby rkzhao » Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:28 pm

For the few people that have been in the PvP community since the beginning (Demon's Souls), it's pretty clear that a SL120ish range fits well for this game. I would assume it's pretty obvious even for the Dark Souls crowd but we'll see. People seem to have consistently missed the point of the PvP meta in early on in the previous games too. Currently, SL80ish is probably a good cap to stop at to get decent action.
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:36 pm

rkzhao wrote:For the few people that have been in the PvP community since the beginning (Demon's Souls),


What does that have to do with anything?


rkzhao wrote:For it's pretty clear that a SL120ish range fits well for this game.


That's debatable but I'm going to skip the next 6 months and tell you you're wrong, come back to this post in October for mind=blown

rkzhao wrote:I would assume it's pretty obvious even for the Dark Souls crowd but we'll see. .


y


rkzhao wrote:People seem to have consistently missed the point of the PvP meta in early on in the previous games too.


PvP meta in coop orientated games that force the playerbase to work around its terrible mechanics. It worked in DkS/DeS but it's pretty clear now from could give a damn about the hardcore PvP crowd (there's a thread about how hard it is to PvP consistently right below this one if you don't believe me.) As for "missing the point of PvP meta" I have to honestly say I have no idea what you're saying. In DeS PvP meta happened on accident because a couple egotistical people and a single chatroom, in DKS it was so well established people just rolled with it. In DKS2 120 wasn't working anymore due to different stats/ new impacts on meta from these stats. There was a 100, 115ish / 150/ 220 meta etc. SM allowed this more than ever before.

rkzhao wrote: Currently, SL80ish is probably a good cap to stop at to get decent action.


For pure volume of player interaction nothing beats slvl 50-75 imo.
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby rkzhao » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:30 pm

good to see this board isn't so dead that we can't still have these types of responses from people. Reminds me of the good ol days :lol:.

If I were to actually take you seriously.

Why is familiarity with DeS useful? Because the lower weapon stat requirements and the stat distribution in BB is most similar to DeS.

Why would this also sort of apply to DkS1? Because ignoring poise needs and higher stat reqs on some weapons, DkS1 stats and build considerations are still similar. Also, since the vast majority of the current community for Souls games came from DkS1 rather than DeS, it's likely that crowd that will end up having the largest influence on the PvP meta.

Your other points were pretty much in agreement with what I said so I guess I'll just respond with thx?
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:56 pm

rkzhao wrote:good to see this board isn't so dead that we can't still have these types of responses from people. Reminds me of the good ol days :lol:.


likewise.

rkzhao wrote:If I were to actually take you seriously.


too late

rkzhao wrote:Why is familiarity with DeS useful? Because the lower weapon stat requirements and the stat distribution in BB is most similar to DeS.


No it's not, if you don't understand why when we are a forum with a dedicated wiki then I can't help you.

rkzhao wrote:Why would this also sort of apply to DkS1? Because ignoring poise needs and higher stat reqs on some weapons, DkS1 stats and build considerations are still similar. Also, since the vast majority of the current community for Souls games came from DkS1 rather than DeS, it's likely that crowd that will end up having the largest influence on the PvP meta..


DKS1 players have little to no input on meta in Bloodborne, maybe the most elitist streamers think they have some kind of power over the community but it's delusional hubris at best. Thinking that any previous games meta players can dictate the meta of the next game is moronic. I would say the vast majority of bloodborne players in meta currently started with DKS2 or BB. Not to mention this has never been true. DeS meta players tried to take control of DKS1 meta and it failed miserably. same with DKS1 to DKS2. The community controls the meta and the community is going to go with what makes sense, 120 is too high for BB pvp meta.

rkzhao wrote:Your other points were pretty much in agreement with what I said so I guess I'll just respond with thx?


You're welcome. :ugeek:
Last edited by Magicisoverrated on Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby Juli » Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:49 pm

Magicisoverrated wrote:The community controls the meta

At least, that's what We let them think.

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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:26 pm

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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby bialy0021 » Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:55 pm

100. you're welcome.
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby Jumilaattori » Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:29 am

Magicisoverrated wrote:DeS meta players tried to take control of DKS1 meta and it failed miserably.
Wtf is a DeS meta player?

Game mechanics get familiar, players evolve, game evolves, meta game changes. DeS had like 5 to 6.

JP community was the largest in dks1 and like 99% former des players, they made rules:

sl 120
no chain stab
no prebuffs

Only thing that cowboys never understood was no pre buffs cause cowboys, need grass and weapon buff.

But yea that´s how dks1 was, dunno if anyone tried to control it and the only thing that failed miserably was PvP, HIYO.

Only thing that was wrong in dks2 was sm. But all the good players stayed at 150 while chumps played with stat points.

As for BB, 10-15 points hardly makes a difference. Its not like dks2 with 500 stat point advantage, NO.

Some say 100, some say 120. Think I´ll do 110 to play with all, no brainer :)
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby bialy0021 » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:26 am

Jumilaattori wrote:Some say Kos, some say Kosm.

ftfy xD
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby Juli » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:17 am

No one can catch us... No one can stop us now!

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I pretty much agree with Jumi, except I'm going to 120, since 120 happens to be in range of both 100 and 120.
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:17 pm

Jumilaattori wrote: Wtf is a DeS meta player?


I can't tell if it's that you don't know what "meta" means or what a "meta player" is or if you're mocking the fact that there are no more des "meta players" but ill just say kyllä and agree with you.

Jumilaattori wrote:Game mechanics get familiar, players evolve, game evolves, meta game changes. DeS had like 5 to 6.

JP community was the largest in dks1 and like 99% former des players, they made rules:



Jp community/German communities both had unique ways of playing though i feel your percentage calculation was pulled directly out of chronic flatulence air i did have the opportunity to play with some JP fight clubs and they did like to make the game feel similar to demon's souls, but they were never successful in their honorable endeavors.

Jumilaattori wrote:Only thing that cowboys never understood was no pre buffs cause cowboys, need grass and weapon buff.

But yea that´s how dks1 was, dunno if anyone tried to control it and the only thing that failed miserably was PvP, HIYO.


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Jumilaattori wrote:Only thing that was wrong in dks2 was sm. But all the good players stayed at 150 while chumps played with stat points.


Depends, after numerous updates i feel like almost any soul level range is viable for "competitive" PvP, though of course theres a point where iframe count just becomes asinine beyond understanding. I did really enjoy the time i spent at slvl range 150 but it was also easy to be very OP at that level before numerous updates. I don't believe DKS2 has solidified a SLvL range to date, but i haven't played it since SotFS came out so i don't know the current state of meta.

Jumilaattori wrote:As for BB, 10-15 points hardly makes a difference. Its not like dks2 with 500 stat point advantage, NO.

Some say 100, some say 120. Think I´ll do 110 to play with all, no brainer :)


No and you're right, the same was true for DeS, 15 points made hardly any difference, but the problem is by 120 in BB you're just too high, stat requirements for weapons are even lower across the board than they were for even DeS and scaling is much, much, much, much, much higher. not to mention at those levels arcane and bloodtinge everywhere. I'm just going to tell you right now meta is going to end up being 80-100 unless a major update comes along to alter anything i said above. But good luck trying to make it 120-125, i enjoyed dual lance 838 setups on DKS2 myself.
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby Ukkoclap » Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:47 pm

I'm staying 100 for my builds for awhile. You can go to 120, but you wont be able to invade level 80 players you'd only be able to invade as low as 98ish. BL100 is pretty decent, even for quality builds, but 120 does allow you to pump very high END and VIT.
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby eklad » Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:05 pm

100 for no healing duels & 120 for healing duels
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby Jumilaattori » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:13 am

Magicisoverrated wrote:But good luck trying to make it 120-125, i enjoyed dual lance 838 setups on DKS2 myself.
I´m not trying to make anything. I´ll do my toons and play with whoever I can connect.

Juli wrote:I'm going to 120, since 120 happens to be in range of both 100 and 120.
140 too, moar players!

Think I´ll go 120 too with my 1st, for testing all weapons, gonna do blood arcane Q :shock: That´s real quality bahahaha
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby HatchetCam » Tue Apr 21, 2015 8:27 am

Magicisoverrated wrote:German communities (both) had unique way(s) of playing


Yup, they were playing bad 8-)
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby Magicisoverrated » Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:59 pm

Jumilaattori wrote:´m not trying to make anything. I´ll do my toons and play with whoever I can connect.


okay

HatchetCam wrote:Yup, they were playing bad 8-)


Eh, yeah I can't disagree. German fightclubs were always level 80 lightning builds iirc. Nothing to write home about but they existed.
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Re: Max level for PvP?

Postby Cam » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:55 am

I'm going to go with level 120 because it reminds me of Demon's Souls, and things that do are compelling to me.
Either way, I think I'll be hard-pressed to find anyone to PvP with. Who knows, I still haven't gotten into it yet.

EDIT:
And because the Kirkhammer PvP build is so clean and simple at LVL120.
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