asagoe`s builds

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asagoe`s builds

Postby asagoe » Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:12 am

Hello, before E-W-G-F publishes his findings and tells us everything we need to know, these are some of early builds that suit my playstyle; do not think they deserve to be copied, but rather may serve as food for thought for people looking to tweak their builds. Without further ado:
avelyn dex: sl 125 bandit (36-20-11-20-25-37-20-1-8); blades, life, royal soldier`s, third dragon. spells: sacred oath. Comment: with the ability to buff elemental weapons, tables are kinda turned, and elemental builds have far greater dmg output, so this is more of a homage to previous souls rather than ultra competitive pvp build. 25 str for avelyn and power stance 2 chaos blades. king`s crown for sacred oath, jester`s, aurous, aurous, equip burden = 49,8% :D . run r1 into l1 des style powerstanced chaos blades will do decent dmg, watcher`s shield, cleric`s sacred chime offhand and raw avelyn as secondary to give this build much needed range to compete with magic - just hit them before they cast it, 8-) and good finisher too. Suggested covenant: Dragon Remnants
pyro hex: sl 125 deprived (47-20-6-20-7-14-6-29-29); abyss, clear bluestone, southern ritual, third dragon. spells: flame weapon, great combustion, forbidden sun, great resonant soul. Comment: hexer`s hood to bring pyros and hexes to soft cap, penal handcuffs, lion mage skirt, 7 str, 14 dex for fire chaos rapier which does decent dmg when buffed with flame weapon (the fact that you can equip jester`s robes is a bonus). Obviously spells choice is going to be based on personal preferences. Suggested covenant: Brotherhood of Blood
faith dex: sl 125 bandit (41-20-11-16-12-25-3-1-49); clear bluestone, life, lingering dragoncrest, third dragon. spells: great magic barrier, sunlight blade, wog. Comment: hexer`s hood brings faith to 50, lightning chaos blade with lightning dragon chime sunlight blade hits like a truck, so do the wogs, fast enough with clear bluestone 2, lion mage cuffs and skirt too, and lingering dragoncrest makes the buff last something like 2 mins - unlike classic dex, this is more of an invasion than dueling build. Suggested covenant: Blue Sentinels Thank you for reading :)
P.S. Jester`s robes will nullify criticals in pvp, thanks meph for testing this for me.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby Thaumogenesis » Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:21 am

Did you actually try those builds? First of all, i think lvl 150 is pretty much 'established'. I get lots of action between 150 and 200 with my toons.

Also, using 4x Wog requires quite some PVE grinding. Let's assume you get one as a Covenant reward, the second copy comes in Ng++, third one in Ng+++ and the fourth one in Ng++++. I'm not sure i could do that with a 125 char, but i guess people will get better the more they play.

Also not sure about the base Vitality. I guess it works with those setups but it severly limits weapons/armor choices. Having a little extra VIT is pretty useful too, since roll distance at 70% is pretty low.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby asagoe » Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:00 am

I do not have time to regularly post on this forum, but I will make a small exception here.
Thaumogenesis wrote:First of all, i think lvl 150 is pretty much 'established'. I get lots of action between 150 and 200 with my toons.
You get a lot of action at any level, the game is at its pve peak. There can be no established level, certainly not before things related to soul memory get sorted out. Even now, i could pop my 712 cop in dark souls, and find guilty with ease. A lot of game mechanics need to be fully grasped before any sort of pvp community sl gets established.
Thaumogenesis wrote:Also not sure about the base Vitality.

Poise was far more important in dark souls,to the extent that post flip nerf, every competitive build was doomed on wearing havel`s gauntlets and hollow soldier waistcloth. Looked fugly, but was effective... I trust you to have enough experience with souls to know that builds should have some shortcomings, in order to be builds in the first place. Having a lot of hp, doing massive dmg, wearing shiny armour etc, simply is not it. I am sure that in the near future, you will still get a lot of action with your sl 200 toons, but as a pvp community, we are very far away from calling that pvp sl cap.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby CptCosmic » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:23 am

asagoe wrote:Comment: with the ability to buff elemental weapons, tables are kinda turned, and elemental builds have far greater dmg output.

this statement is just not true and depends on alot of circumstances.

first of all, armor is actually usefull in DKS2 and it also scales with stats apparantly. the difference is like getting 1hko backstabbed to surviving with ~50% hp. I can bring my greatsword up to ~600 AR without having to go through 2 layers of defense and when I hit you during an animation its counter bonus will bring it up to 780 AR. with the armor and physical stats you use in your build, me hitting you with my greatsword would definately hurt you more than you could hurt me with your buffed weapon. the majority physical part of your split damage would be eaten by the resistances my stats & armor provides leaving you with the elemental damage only.

there are exceptions though, like the MLGS but only because it does pure magical damage and I fully expect it to get adjusted by FROM sooner or later.

just saying.

asagoe wrote:You get a lot of action at any level, the game is at its pve peak. There can be no established level, certainly not before things related to soul memory get sorted out. Even now, i could pop my 712 cop in dark souls, and find guilty with ease. A lot of game mechanics need to be fully grasped before any sort of pvp community sl gets established.

the reason why people prefer SL150 is because no one wants playing against the same cookie cutter builds at Sl125 nonstop. people want diversity.

beside that you would find players with a 712 SL toon because of how SM works.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby bialy0021 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:00 am

pure phys isnt that bad asa, and so is sacred oath brought to 10 fth, especially on faster weaps (it buffs all your slots btw. - dual wielding, backups etc.). its not ridiculously op like cw but its ok. ive 1 toon pretty much done and its pure phys at 125 with max agility, its ok id say.

ppl prefer 150 because its easier. unlike sl125, making a sl150 is quite easy, even with lower base stats. not because of diversity, you can get that at 125 as well.
as asa said the actual pvp sl cant really be established without more knowledge of how the game actually works. or whether its even worth to bother with the game.

ps. i find adp being widely ignored quite funny. basically no one even tested it thoroughly enough yet most just skip a stat that helps with using items and most importantly rolling. le fuq?
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby CptCosmic » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:16 am

bialy0021 wrote: not because of diversity, you can get that at 125 as well.

except that casters have huge advantage at SL125 which is not diversity in my book.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby bialy0021 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:26 am

o'rly? and isnt 150 a level where everyone is a caster? ;)

125 is safe. if the game will prove to be more than it is now and if sl will be indeed 150 ppl with 125 will just level up. it wont work the other way though.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby CptCosmic » Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:44 am

bialy0021 wrote:o'rly? and isnt 150 a level where everyone is a caster? ;)

125 is safe. if the game will prove to be more than it is now and if sl will be indeed 150 ppl with 125 will just level up. it wont work the other way though.

there is nothing a magic build can do alot better at 150 than it can at 125 except carry heavier armor. they can already at 125 focus on their magic attributes, leave everything else low or at soft cap breakpoints, cast spells and still have a powerhouse melee weapon as backup. the base damage of spells is already so high that a few extra attribute points do not matter and you can spice requirements of spells down to the attribute level you wish and the infusions combined with weapon buffs bring them on par damage wise with physical builds. the MLGS even outdamages pure phys builds.

a pure phys character at 125 has only melee complemente by a bit of range from bows/xbows, his stamina is not better than the stamina of the magic build, he cannot poise through anything, his rolling isnt great with heavier armor and his damage is not greater than the damage of the magic build. also note that you need good armor as a pure physical character because your low magical attributes translate into lower defense against lightning/dark/fire which all the magical builds do. at SL 150 on the other hand, I can invest into VIT/END/ADP thus I can roll better in armor and if you are not carefull I will gladly trade and poise through your pathetic lightning katana or whatever (lol @ #internetwisdompoiseuseless crowd) and hit you with 800 AR from a greatsword counter hit but to do that you need END/ADP/VIT and the VIG to absorb damage.

and btw, applying your logic, the safest SL for pvp is when you create a new character, so why dont we do PVP with only new characters then?

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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby bialy0021 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:18 pm

at 150 melee could add few slots for pyro and roll with spells as well. spells that are just as op. hell, clear bluestone will make you cast pretty damn fast too.
at 150 casters could add more vig/vit/end/adp/whatever and have a much better melee as well. not only in terms of dmg output but also in terms of mitigation/dodging/pressing.

so, wheres this diveristy? diversity doesnt come from everyone being able to do everything.

at 125 casters cant really go for high dmg stat(s) and not have to sacrifice vig/end/vit or adp. theyre weapon selection is quite limited as well.
at 125 pure melee (phys) cant really add too much att not sacrificing vig/end/vit or adp, and you already want sacred oath which requires 10att and a ring slot.

sl150 doesnt solve the issue of ridiculous dmg on spells. sl150 doesnt solve the issue of huge dmg you can deal with 1 combo (even tho the system seems very inconsistent).
what sl150 does is making hybrids the best choice.

im not exactly against sl150, i just dont see any reason to go there atm. i can make builds im satisfied with at 125. and that includes a pure phys melee and a hybrid which will be using all types of magic and have a decent melee. if you need 150 go for it. neither of us will decide what level the other one should play at. or if one should play at all considering how incredibly complex, deep and lag/delay-free this game is.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby Belzebuuth » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:56 pm

bialy0021 wrote:pure phys isnt that bad asa, and so is sacred oath brought to 10 fth, especially on faster weaps (it buffs all your slots btw. - dual wielding, backups etc.). its not ridiculously op like cw but its ok. ive 1 toon pretty much done and its pure phys at 125 with max agility, its ok id say.

ppl prefer 150 because its easier. unlike sl125, making a sl150 is quite easy, even with lower base stats. not because of diversity, you can get that at 125 as well.
as asa said the actual pvp sl cant really be established without more knowledge of how the game actually works. or whether its even worth to bother with the game.

ps. i find adp being widely ignored quite funny. basically no one even tested it thoroughly enough yet most just skip a stat that helps with using items and most importantly rolling. le fuq?


I totally agree with every word.
I found agility very useful to improve my survivability, and I'm not taking damage anymore midroll compared to base ADP (was 85 agility for me, now I'm at 99).

Asa, spicing down Sacred Oath to 10 Fth is a great idea; flame weapon pyro buff is nice too (at least it's better than nothing lol). Anyway nice builds and thanks for sharing :)
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby rkzhao » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:31 pm

Thaumogenesis wrote:Did you actually try those builds? First of all, i think lvl 150 is pretty much 'established'. I get lots of action between 150 and 200 with my toons.


As far as I can tell, there's still no matchmaking limit in blue arena atleast.
So I've been using muled SL65 toons, (~180-200k sm). Enough stats to barely use the weapons I want and have 40vig. Most people I meet are SL120 or higher. I've gotten 200s and 300s from people that reply back when I asked.

Every build I have is complete enough at SL125 or lower. Then again, I don't really like spells since I think most of them are pretty mindless so I see no reason for me to optimize for hybrid builds. If pvp settles at 150, I can always level them up and burn stats into end or adp or atn something. If it settles at 125, I don't have to start over.

CptCosmic wrote:the reason why people prefer SL150 is because no one wants playing against the same cookie cutter builds at Sl125 nonstop. people want diversity.


I find comments like this amusing because at SL150, the majority of things you see is a "hybrid spell sword"
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby Jumilaattori » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:54 pm

4 x wog :lol:

I was vaded by a cop who dropped 200k souls. SL150 drops 2k. He had no rank but he had wog x 2. About 20 min later and another cop that dropped 200k souls. And the same again twice in row. There seems to be no level range. I´m vading sl 150´s more often than 120´s meaning that more and more people have realized that this is a different game. Also every streamer clip that has been linked and I´ve seen, they all are sl 150, take a guess on what sl are their viewers.

Why would I stop leveling halfway through the game?

This is not des nor dks.

bialy0021 wrote:spells that are just as op
They hit hard but so does everything in this game.

bialy0021 wrote:so, wheres this diveristy? diversity doesnt come from everyone being able to do everything.
Well I had to sacrifice vgr,end and adp and vit at 150...

For a build without spells my next I´ll put dual avelyns to slot 1 , dual wield something cool in slot 2 something that has has nasty stunlock and to slot 3 spear and shield. And then Í´m gonna mix them in battle. Will call it the specialist :D

And I´m gonna sacrifice int,fth and atn.

I did 120 pvp and yes you can do everything there but the diversity is better at 150 and fights are longer. People that stay at 120 only put themself to disadvantage and are sticking to past.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby rkzhao » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:15 pm

Jumilaattori wrote:I did 120 pvp and yes you can do everything there but the diversity is better at 150 and fights are longer. People that stay at 120 only put themself to disadvantage and are sticking to past.


Putting myself at a disadvantage, yes. That's kind of the whole reason for me to arena at SL65. Like you said, there doesn't seem to be much of a level range and I can get SL150 action even at SL65.

As for sticking to SL120 on builds, for me it's simply a matter of practicality. SL120 can always level up to SL150, and respec as needed. SL150 cannot respec back down to SL120. So since I actually like having a disadvantage when general player skill level is still so low, SL120 or even lower is perfectly fine.

That said, because i feel like we can get "specialized" builds optimized enough at SL120, I'm feeling that cookie cutter builds are more going to be at least SL135-140 if not SL150. In DeS and DkS builds could have been optimized enough at SL100.

When pvp skill level raises enough, and assuming SL limits ever get brought back, the standard SL would have settled probably somewhere between 120-150, most likely more on the higher side. Then, I'll level up if needed. It's pretty much guaranteed that pvp SL will not be lower than 120 so I won't have to worry about ever being over leveled if I stay at 120 for now.

There is one build where I do want to be at SL150. Mundane Santier's Spear.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby Jumilaattori » Thu Apr 03, 2014 4:25 pm

Well said, well said :)
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby bialy0021 » Thu Apr 03, 2014 10:07 pm

i (reluctantly!) agree with rkzhao so just 1 thing:
Jumilaattori wrote:
bialy0021 wrote:spells that are just as op
They hit hard but so does everything in this game.

thats the problem. its not like theres no powerful stuff in ds - theres plenty, pretty much everything has something 'op'. that said, its their 3rd game in the series, 2nd where they supposedly acknowledge the 'pvp scene' and yet they go with design that takes away from the competitive aspect of the game. autoaimed 1hkos are not skillful, especially in a p2p game. especially in a poorly made p2p game.
spells themselves dont really have too much to them too (you can cancel actually but its a meh cancel).

yh, its fun when big numbers pop. yet its mildly irritating when youre not on the right side and, most importantly, gets boring fast if you are.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby Archmagician » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:56 am

Jumilaattori wrote:They hit hard but so does everything in this game.

My 40/40 Quality build hits for ~400 damage with the Black Knight Ultra Greatsword +5, while my 19/26 Hex build hits for ~1,300 with Great Resonant Soul. GRS is also faster and it has better range; reducing the chance of getting hit. And you can stun-lock with GRS too.

Dexterity and Strength are horrible modifiers for damage output in this game.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby CazzMatazz » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:34 am

Archmagician wrote:
Jumilaattori wrote:They hit hard but so does everything in this game.

My 40/40 Quality build hits for ~400 damage with the Black Knight Ultra Greatsword +5, while my 19/26 Hex build hits for ~1,300 with Great Resonant Soul. GRS is also faster and it has better range; reducing the chance of getting hit. And you can stun-lock with GRS too.

Dexterity and Strength are horrible modifiers for damage output in this game.



Until(if) they fix scaling there is no point in 40/40 build...or even going above base weapon stats in str and dex. Just infuse that weapon.

This is dks1 vit gouge elemental weapons all over again
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby CptCosmic » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:50 am

Archmagician wrote:
Jumilaattori wrote:They hit hard but so does everything in this game.

My 40/40 Quality build hits for ~400 damage with the Black Knight Ultra Greatsword +5, while my 19/26 Hex build hits for ~1,300 with Great Resonant Soul. GRS is also faster and it has better range; reducing the chance of getting hit. And you can stun-lock with GRS too.

Dexterity and Strength are horrible modifiers for damage output in this game.

Str scaling is not that bad imho, but you need a weapon with high base damage. a greatsword can hit for ~800 AR with ring of blades if you attack someone during an animation for that nice counter bonus.

I wouldnt bother with dex though unless you are going for a poison build.

rkzhao wrote:Putting myself at a disadvantage, yes. That's kind of the whole reason for me to arena at SL65. Like you said, there doesn't seem to be much of a level range and I can get SL150 action even at SL65.

As for sticking to SL120 on builds, for me it's simply a matter of practicality. SL120 can always level up to SL150, and respec as needed. SL150 cannot respec back down to SL120. So since I actually like having a disadvantage when general player skill level is still so low, SL120 or even lower is perfectly fine.

That said, because i feel like we can get "specialized" builds optimized enough at SL120, I'm feeling that cookie cutter builds are more going to be at least SL135-140 if not SL150. In DeS and DkS builds could have been optimized enough at SL100.

first of all, in DkS you could do SL100 builds because you could pump END and you got a nice all around package for it => good rolling, poise and defense from armor against all damage types (although honestly, resistances didnt do much in DkS1). DeS didnt had poise but you had hyperarmor. Now the game is different, in DkS2 armor scale with stat, you need more VIT and rings to roll properly with good armor, you need agility from ADP for a roll that is as good as it was in DkS1 and a pure physical build gets one shot without proper armor with enough defense because he does not have any resistances against elements without it cause those resistances are tied to magical attributes.

second, there is no diversity or nothing specialized at SL120 when you invest into a casting attribute, take the minimal attributes to wield a weapon of choice, take a bit of END/ATT, pump rest in vig and leave rest at base. everyone and their grandmothers are running that build at SL120. this is cookie cutter, no one wants this, I do not get what is so hard to understand about that?

and last, by applying your "logic" we might aswell do pvp with fresh characters without leveling up and progressing though the game. suddenly everyone has specialized characters with drawbacks, no cheesy MLGS, no other buffed up elemental weapons, no estus spam => balance achieved and skill matters + you can still level them up later when needed.

:horse:
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby Jumilaattori » Fri Apr 04, 2014 6:58 am

Incompetence.. incompetence at the highest level breeds stupidity

-President eden

xD

Archmagician wrote:while my 19/26 Hex build hits for ~1,300 with Great Resonant Soul. GRS is also faster and it has better range; reducing the chance of getting hit. And you can stun-lock with GRS too.
:lol:

CazzMatazz wrote:
Until(if) they fix scaling there is no point in 40/40 build...or even going above base weapon stats in str and dex. Just infuse that weapon.
Pure dmg vs spilt dmg. Vs my setup physical dmg>>>>>buffed infused weapon. How much stats you pump depends on weapon scaling, if its C you don´t need much if its S you gain a solid boost till 50.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby asagoe » Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:00 am

bialy0021 wrote:i find adp being widely ignored quite funny. basically no one even tested it thoroughly enough yet most just skip a stat that helps with using items and most importantly rolling. le fuq?

No-one figured soft cap as of yet, b, like I stated at the start, these builds are pre-E-W-G-F :) : aside from pve flasking, the only difference I noticed pvp wise is that agility makes you combo actions quicker (i.e. at base if you want to raise a shield after a roll, you will get a hit, with 110 agility, you will be able to block, but that is pretty much it). At what point does that change, from my inconclusive tests, you seem to be able to get away with agility goodies at 20 adaptability, but I would not sacrifice going from let us say 2shotting with spells to 3shotting with spells just so I can block after a roll.
bialy0021 wrote:sacred oath brought to 10 fth

:gp: Duly noted, forgot that sacred oath is static, edited classic dex, now it is insolent helm spices 8 faith, 20 adaptabilty.
Jumilaattori wrote:4 x wog :lol:
Glad I made you smile, my toons wear Jester`s robes too, so if we meet, you will get more reasons to smile.
Jumilaattori wrote:Also every streamer clip that has been linked and I´ve seen, they all are sl 150, take a guess on what sl are their viewers.
Is grand master Jumi taking tips from Oroboro now, your next build features 2handed falchion? Again early stages, but ppl in chat seem to think that summoning evolves in ng+ around soul memory, easy to connect if players have over 10 mil soul memory irrespective of soul level, if true, why stop levelling at all?
Jumilaattori wrote:Well I had to sacrifice vgr,end and adp and vit at 150...

No you do not, be honest, your lightning dragon chime wog does 2k dmg? do you really need hexes with that wog - let us say 50 vgr, third dragon is standard most builds will be going for, that is 2k hp and a change, if a 50 vgr 3rd dragon can 1shot 50 vgr 3rd dragon, that is not going to be pvp sl cap for long.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby rkzhao » Fri Apr 04, 2014 11:51 am

Jumilaattori wrote:Incompetence.. incompetence at the highest level breeds stupidity

-President eden

xD


Since I was part of the gfaqs crew for DeS originally, I want to say I'm generally fairly good at ignoring stupidity unless I want to troll. Looking at the state of this board now, I shudder to think about what gfaqs for DkS2 is like now.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby Archmagician » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:31 pm

CazzMatazz wrote:Until(if) they fix scaling there is no point in 40/40 build...or even going above base weapon stats in str and dex. Just infuse that weapon.

This is dks1 vit gouge elemental weapons all over again

The thing is that weapon infusion isn't that good either. Not without a buff to go along with it, and even then it's nowhere near as effective as spells.

CptCosmic wrote:Str scaling is not that bad imho, but you need a weapon with high base damage. a greatsword can hit for ~800 AR with ring of blades if you attack someone during an animation for that nice counter bonus.

Can you please specify what weapons you're referring to. Because I've experimented quite a lot and unless I land a crit I've not come anywhere near 800.

Jumilaattori wrote::lol:

Dark Caitha's Chime +10, Abyssal Seal. Try it out for yourself.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby Jumilaattori » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:34 pm

asa are you sentinel rank2 in ng++++ or do you just recommend 4 x wog?

Have you tried other weapons than just chaos blade to every toon?

Have you tried sl 150?

asagoe wrote:there is very little pure melee builds can do to compete with hybrids.
Git guuuuud.

asagoe wrote:thorns
+1
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby Jumilaattori » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:39 pm

Archmagician wrote:Dark Caitha's Chime +10, Abyssal Seal. Try it out for yourself.
You try it vs anyone that knows how to roll and prevent you from casting again.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby CptCosmic » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:47 pm

Archmagician wrote:Can you please specify what weapons you're referring to. Because I've experimented quite a lot and unless I land a crit I've not come anywhere near 800.

greatsword, 40 STR two handed ~600 AR with ring of blades. counter hit brings it to almost 800 AR.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby Archmagician » Fri Apr 04, 2014 2:48 pm

Jumilaattori wrote:
Archmagician wrote:Dark Caitha's Chime +10, Abyssal Seal. Try it out for yourself.
You try it vs anyone that knows how to roll and prevent you from casting again.

Well then I suppose a good 100% of the players I've fought doesn't know how to roll, and that includes some of the more prominent Twitch streamers.

I'm not saying that people haven't dodged my spells, what I'm saying is that they haven't been able to do it effectively enough for my spells to be useless, or useless enough for me to fall back on my weapons.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby rkzhao » Fri Apr 04, 2014 3:28 pm

CptCosmic wrote:greatsword, 40 STR two handed ~600 AR with ring of blades. counter hit brings it to almost 800 AR.


For future reference, AR =/= damage. AR stands for attack rating and is the number the game displays for your weapon. Damage (dmg) refers to the actual damage you see. Depending on defense, moveset, and direct hits (counter hits) the same AR on a weapon can hit for various amounts of damage.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby bialy0021 » Fri Apr 04, 2014 4:13 pm

Archmagician wrote:Dexterity and Strength are horrible modifiers for damage output in this game.

not really. i dont care for dex weaps, but as far as c/c or quality weaps if you will, str scales reasonably well. from the ones ive tested dex is indeed not really worth the investment (imho) apart from the number you need for powerstance (if you want, obv).

gay sword (sun sword) is 350 pure phys ar at 40/40, lsword is 331 iirc (might be wrong, cant check atm).
at 40/19 (powerstance min) gay sword has 321 and ls has 314. thats 29 ar for 21 pts on A scaling and 17ar on C scaling. not that bad for gay sword but still not worth 21 pts (especially if youre going for sl125). less than 1ar per point spent is really underwhelming though and if i wasnt using gay sword id go with 40/13 for powerstanced ls (or 40/9 for 1h/2h ls).

that said 421/414 pure phys ar on something as fast as a straight sword (which breaks any poise as far as i can tell in 2h)? also, im told raw dragon straight sword is 345. thats 20/15 weapon. yeah, physical is ok.

btw. is anyone actually using sun (gay) sword? its more of a sentiment thing for me cos the moveset is the closest you can get to the true ks but the range on 1h r2 is... well, pathetic. ls with its forward moving swing seems to have more reach. 2h r2 is decent but recovery is atrocious, unless you follow up with a 2nd r2.
in general i find movesets a downgrade from ds yet again. i guess we get powerstance to compensate for it but id much rather an overall better moveset than it.

asagoe wrote:No-one figured soft cap as of yet, b, like I stated at the start, these builds are pre-E-W-G-F :) : aside from pve flasking, the only difference I noticed pvp wise is that agility makes you combo actions quicker (i.e. at base if you want to raise a shield after a roll, you will get a hit, with 110 agility, you will be able to block, but that is pretty much it). At what point does that change, from my inconclusive tests, you seem to be able to get away with agility goodies at 20 adaptability, but I would not sacrifice going from let us say 2shotting with spells to 3shotting with spells just so I can block after a roll.

well, soft cap is 110 agi it seems. you need way more pts in adp (not even mentioning att) to get it past that.
the difference in flasking and rolling is easily noticeable. didnt know about it shortening time to block - could test it (really miss the l1 to shorten recovery tbh).
you get 110agi at 10att/37adp - yeah, thats a lot of pts. is it worth it? id say yes. could it be that the real benefits stop at lower agi? possibly, hopefully. ive no equipment to test it though.

Archmagician wrote:The thing is that weapon infusion isn't that good either. Not without a buff to go along with it, and even then it's nowhere near as effective as spells.

for pure phys, no, its not. apart from raw on non/low scalers or mundane on a mundane 'build' (thats hardly a build but hey). simple +10 is where the dmg is for most scaling weaps.
light/fire/dark are very good - it is known. poinson is prolly considered decent since the status is quite lethal this time around. id say bleed is underrated. didnt test it cos fu dex but cutting your opps stam is always good.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby CptCosmic » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:23 pm

rkzhao wrote:
CptCosmic wrote:greatsword, 40 STR two handed ~600 AR with ring of blades. counter hit brings it to almost 800 AR.


For future reference, AR =/= damage. AR stands for attack rating and is the number the game displays for your weapon. Damage (dmg) refers to the actual damage you see. Depending on defense, moveset, and direct hits (counter hits) the same AR on a weapon can hit for various amounts of damage.

I never claimed it to be damage, I was always refering to AR.
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Re: asagoe`s builds

Postby rkzhao » Fri Apr 04, 2014 5:29 pm

CptCosmic wrote:I never claimed it to be damage, I was always refering to AR.


Counter hit doesn't increase AR.
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