Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Tsmp » Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:04 pm

ALL IS RIGHT IN THE WORLD!

http://bandainamcous.tumblr.com/post/10 ... pdate-will

Patch notes:
A free update will be available for all Dark Souls II players on February 5th, 2015 bringing gameplay enhancements and new story elements to prepare for The Scholar of the First Sin! (Ver 1.10, Calibrations 1.13)

Check out this new batch of screenshots that highlight some of the improvements and read on below for a full list of changes:

Added new character, The Scholar of the First Sin.
Additional item description text.
Choosing to enter the Covenant of Champions will now allow enemies to continue to respawn after being defeated.
Choosing to enter the Covenant of Champions will now cause enemies to inflict more damage to the player.
Players will gain access to a new item: The Agape Ring. When players equip the new Agape Ring, souls collected from kills during online play will be absorbed by the ring rather than the player. This allows players to control their online matchmaking experience by limiting their total souls collected.
Increased effect of Rusted Coin.
Awestones now dropped more often.
The bonfire warp selection screen will now highlight the top three areas where players will have the best change to connect with other players online.
White phantoms will remain in other players’ worlds for longer periods of time.
White phantoms will no longer return to their world if time runs out during a boss battle.
Players on their first play through can now match with players on their 2nd or further play through.
Made it easier for players to match online in general.
Made it so that invading players cannot use items which invite more enemies.
NPC conversation text is now displayed more prominently than online notices.
Players may now choose to cancel out the effect of the Human Effigy at bonfires.
When a player cannot take part in online play due to the effect of the Human Effigy, made it so that the player can still write signs. (They still cannot summon during this period.)
The Imitation spell now affects normal enemies.
The Hush spell is now more effective on normal enemies.
Load times shortened (PS3 only).
Calibrations no longer saved each time before the title screen.
Fixed issue causing map name listed on save data and actual map name after loading to not match.
Made it possible to skip the ending sequence the 2nd time through and beyond.
Removed the blur effect used when looking through the binoculars.
Rouge Water, etc.: Fixed issue causing the user not to recover spell usages for spells only able to be used once.
Made Old Iron King’s Crown’s effect function consistently throughout the game.
Adjusted price for Crown of the Ivory King, Ivory King Armor, Ivory King Gauntlets, Ivory King Leggings.
Fixed Issue whereby the sign in the Iron Keep was not displayed as intended once the player spoke to Lucatiel of Mirrah in Harvest Valley.
Corrected issue whereby users could not use Bonfire Ascetics at Undead Crypt Entrance Bonfire.
Adjusted timing for Licia of Lindeldt to become the player’s enemy.
Adjusted conditions for lighting Majula map from “Defeat Nashandra” to “Defeat Throne Defender and Throne Watcher.”
To prevent invasion after defeating area bosses, made the Human Effigy effect function in this situation automatically.
Made it possible to get the reward items after defeating area bosses even if your inventory is full at the time. (Items will drop in front of the player.)
Made it possible to get the reward items after using Crushed Eye Orb and defeating Licia of Lindeldt even if your inventory is full at the time. (Items will drop in front of the player.)
In Black Gulch, made it possible to receive Forgotten Key after defeating a Giant when the player has 99 Souls of a Giant.
In Grand Cathedral, made it possible to still receive the item you are supposed to get when talking to Alsanna, Silent Oracle even if your inventory is full.
At the Ending, if the player has fulfilled the conditions to receive Illusory Ring of a Conqueror and Illusory Ring of the Exalted but their inventory is full, made it possible to receive the rings properly. (Players will receive the rings as soon as space is opened in their inventory.)
Adjusted rewards in online play:

(Normal Online Play)

Host vanquishes invading dark phantom or arbiter spirit: Human Effigy
Host vanquishes a dark phantom summoned through red sign: Human Effigy
Host vanquishes invading grey spirit (Bell Keeper): (1 of the following) Titanite Chunk, Titanite Slab, Twinkling Titanite, Petrified Dragon Bone.
Vanquish host you invade at the covenant “Rat King” area: Added Smooth & Silky Stone in addition to Pharros’ Lockstone

(Covenant “Blue Sentinels”)

Vanquish dark phantom when summoned as help by a Way of Blue host: Devotion to covenant up +1.

(Covenant “Rat King”)

Vanquish client summoned to Rat King area: Added Smooth & Silky Stone in addition to Pharros’ Lockstone.

(Covenant “Bell Keeper”)

Vanquish host when invading as grey phantom: (1 of the following) Titanite Chunk, Titanite Slab, Twinkling Titanite, Petrified Dragon Bone.

(Covenant “Pilgrims of Dark”)

Host vanquishes abyss spirit in Dark Chasm of Old: added Human Effigy to Bonfire Ascetic.

(Covenant “Brotherhood of Blood”)

When invading, vanquish Blue Sentinel summoned as help: Devotion to covenant up +2.

Scheduled maintenance for this update (Xbox 360, PS3, Steam):

2/4 6:00 AM - 9:00 AM PST
2/4 9:00 AM - 12:00 PM EST
2/4 2:00 PM - 5:00 PM GMT
2/4 3:00 PM - 6:00 PM CET
2/4 11:00 PM - 2:00 AM 2/5 JST

Thank you everyone for your continued support of Dark Souls II!


Other screenshot spoilers: http://imgur.com/a/w5uUa


My thoughts on this new ring:
With the Agape Ring, pvp is now all about min/maxing even your playthrough of the game (i.e. twinking). When creating a pvp character, you could very well find yourself having to choose between upgrading another backup weapon or gaining another few levels.

It might seem like this kills invaders, what with them being unable to buy cracked red eye orbs, but you never really had to buy cracked red eye orbs to begin with... stick with me here: Arenas. Trust me, the BoB arena may have the nasty habit of pairing you with SL838s, but in my experience if you're fighting in the arena at SM 1,000,000 or lower you're not going to find them very often. I think I saw one in a three day binge I once did. Alternatively, might I suggest my own favorite method? Join the pilgrims of dark, invade people and/or kill invaders for bonfire ascetics, then burn the ascetics for cracked red eye orbs at the soldier's rest bonfire at a 3:1 ratio. And if you have no cracked red eye orbs, using the red sign soapstone also nets you bonfire ascetics if used in the dark chasms. And the only problem with abyss invasions was the lack of a standardized SM range in there... with enough people hanging out at a given range, shit's gonna get lively.

So hey, the agape ring makes really low SM invaders absolutely possible now. And really low SM invaders being a thing means way of blue might end up a whole lot more popular to fend off the invaders. And if way of blue is more popular, that means red invaders have more chances to kill blue guardian summons for rank points. And an influx of invaders means blue guardians have more opportunities to gain ranks by killing those invaders, plus there'll be more sinners running around... and what's this? Killing a summoned blue guardian get you +2 devotion points instead of +1, meaning it ranks you up faster than arena pvp? Oh hell fucking yes.

Edit: Oh yes, forgot to mention one thing. Those hexes that cost souls? They're about to get hard nerfed. That's sucky.


It's time, guys. Time to start plotting out the most efficient character optimization playthroughs, the most min/maxy builds within a given number of souls, the whole shebang. Keheheheh... :twisted:
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Slim Cini » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:31 am

Haven't played this for months. Was a ghost town back then. Will this make a difference and are there actually any people to PVP against?
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Slim Cini » Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:35 am

I've also just read that the PC version patch won't include the improved visuals and you have to rebuy if you want that. Who exactly do they think is going to do that?! :lol:
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby DidoRumbus » Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:28 am

There will probably be a discounted upgrade price through steam. Not sure if I'll buy the DLC for PS3 or maybe just buy the game for PS4, those purty graphics haha.

Slim did your account maybe get banned? I've been on every once in a while on my alt account PS3, and it is still very busy. White summons on many bonfires still (NG), plenty of pvp at arenas and bridge, more ppl doing random invasions too.

Tsmp wrote:It's time, guys. Time to start plotting out the most efficient character optimization playthroughs, the most min/maxy builds within a given number of souls, the whole shebang. Keheheheh... :twisted:

Do you think a community SM will catch on for general PVP? I kind of doubt it, but you never know. I'm looking forward to making low SM and SL invaders to camp at early game bonfires :twisted:

Made it easier for players to match online in general. Sounds like they are going to fuck with the brackets again to give a bit more flexibility. Hopefully for invaders!
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Tsmp » Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:01 am

Now that it's actually possible to stop gaining souls, yes I think a community SM probably will catch on. Because, you know, SM is the matchmaking system that determines who you encounter, and people are going to target and stay at the range they feel is the most fair.

Even if the Agape Ring only stops souls gained from multiplayer like the patch notes seem to suggest, that just means you have to stop killing non-player enemies at a certain point. Which would mean... bonfire ascetics would be even more necessary. I think it's time to update my Dark Chasm guide a little bit.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Juli » Fri Jan 16, 2015 1:01 pm

Agape ring is terrible. Like you said, people need to min-max their playthrough now to use it. I explained to you on the fextralife forums why this is bad, but I'll copy/paste it below in a spoiler for others. Also you have to give up a ring slot to use it. This ring does not fix the fundamental brokenness of SM with regards to having a level playing field.

Imagine three different players: Jason, Anton, and Marie.

Jason plays through the game normally on his PvP character. He spends souls to level up, upgrade equipment, and purchase equipment, spells, upgrade materials, and consumables. He also spends a few souls on game-progressing stuff, e.g. Gilligan's ladders. Then he decides he wants to make another build, but instead of making a new character, he just upgrades a new set of equipment and uses a Soul Vessel.

Anton plays through the game normally on his PvP character. He spends souls in the same way that Jason does, except that he always farms his gear, materials, and consumables if possible, rather that purchasing them. If he wants to make a new build, he starts a new character, rather than using a Soul Vessel.

Marie plays through the game in a very restrictive manner on her PvP character. She spends souls on soul levels and spells, because she cannot get them in any other way, but otherwise does not spend souls at all. Meanwhile, she has a second character in which she purchases and farms all her items and upgrades her equipment, and then transfers all those over to her PvP character via a friend. Any time she runs out of consumables, she farms them back up, or purchases them with her alt if they are not farmable. If she wants to make a new build, she transfers over a new set of upgraded equipment and uses a Soul Vessel, unless that build requires a different set of spells than her current one, in which case she creates a new character from scratch. If her alt character that farms, purchases, and upgrades equipment exceeds the SM range where she can transfer items to her PvP character, she makes a new farming alt.

Marie has an advantage over Anton, who in turn has an advantage over Jason. Marie's method is also less convenient than Anton's method, which is in turn less convenient than Jason's. The more you are willing to inconvenience yourself, the stronger your character is.


tl;dr the game is built to reward the players who waste more of their time than others.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Tsmp » Fri Jan 16, 2015 2:56 pm

Saturday-Saint wrote:Agape ring is terrible. Like you said, people need to min-max their playthrough now to use it. I explained to you on the fextralife forums why this is bad, but I'll copy/paste it below in a spoiler for others. Also you have to give up a ring slot to use it. This ring does not fix the fundamental brokenness of SM with regards to having a level playing field.

Imagine three different players: Jason, Anton, and Marie.

Jason plays through the game normally on his PvP character. He spends souls to level up, upgrade equipment, and purchase equipment, spells, upgrade materials, and consumables. He also spends a few souls on game-progressing stuff, e.g. Gilligan's ladders. Then he decides he wants to make another build, but instead of making a new character, he just upgrades a new set of equipment and uses a Soul Vessel.

Anton plays through the game normally on his PvP character. He spends souls in the same way that Jason does, except that he always farms his gear, materials, and consumables if possible, rather that purchasing them. If he wants to make a new build, he starts a new character, rather than using a Soul Vessel.

Marie plays through the game in a very restrictive manner on her PvP character. She spends souls on soul levels and spells, because she cannot get them in any other way, but otherwise does not spend souls at all. Meanwhile, she has a second character in which she purchases and farms all her items and upgrades her equipment, and then transfers all those over to her PvP character via a friend. Any time she runs out of consumables, she farms them back up, or purchases them with her alt if they are not farmable. If she wants to make a new build, she transfers over a new set of upgraded equipment and uses a Soul Vessel, unless that build requires a different set of spells than her current one, in which case she creates a new character from scratch. If her alt character that farms, purchases, and upgrades equipment exceeds the SM range where she can transfer items to her PvP character, she makes a new farming alt.

Marie has an advantage over Anton, who in turn has an advantage over Jason. Marie's method is also less convenient than Anton's method, which is in turn less convenient than Jason's. The more you are willing to inconvenience yourself, the stronger your character is.


tl;dr the game is built to reward the players who waste more of their time than others.


Yes I remember that post, and you're entirely right. But I'm not supporting this thing because I think SM is the best system for fair and balanced pvp, I'm supporting it because it enables invaders, and I think Dark Souls 2 needs more invaders if it wants to be better.

Yes, I'm supporting twinks, within the limits that SM imposes on twinking. Which it does, it's by no means a perfect system but it does prevent nonsense like what we had in the undead burg.

And to be *perfectly* fair, I don't think SM optimization being a thing will have a drastically negative effect on end-game pvp. I think once this thing hits, people are going to sit at around 2 million souls for their pvp characters, on account of 1.5 million is roughly the number of souls needed to hit SL150 and the extra 500,000 on top of that is plenty and then some to account for equipment upgrades, farming, ammunition purchases, etc.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby BobbyPhoenix » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:17 pm

I like the ring. Now a player can stay at a really low SM level, and advance through the game without worrying about going higher in SM. Although they will be restricted on what they can upgrade since any souls gained will really be lost. Like if I start a new game without the ring, and get to a point in the game where I have 300,000 souls, I can upgrade my character's level, or level up my weapons/gear, but if I start a new game with the ring, then at the same point in the game where I'd have 300,000 souls, I'd have zero, so I can't upgrade anything, but I'll still be at the SM level I started the game with, so that "should' make up for going past SM without the ring if I was trying to stay really low in regards to match making at a further point in the game. I'd just have a low level character, and low level weapons/gear.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby DidoRumbus » Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:36 pm

Tsmp wrote:Now that it's actually possible to stop gaining souls, yes I think a community SM probably will catch on. Because, you know, SM is the matchmaking system that determines who you encounter, and people are going to target and stay at the range they feel is the most fair.

Even if the Agape Ring only stops souls gained from multiplayer like the patch notes seem to suggest, that just means you have to stop killing non-player enemies at a certain point. Which would mean... bonfire ascetics would be even more necessary. I think it's time to update my Dark Chasm guide a little bit.

I'm missing something -- why would ascetics become more necessary? I make my SL150-200 at 2 million SM (or low level, etc etc), same as before, but now I stay at that SM as long as I only PVP. It's not like I'm progressing through NG+'s on PVP characters. In fact the opposite, I tend to stick in NG bc crits are less.

BobbyPhoenix wrote:I like the ring. Now a player can stay at a really low SM level, and advance through the game without worrying about going higher in SM. Although they will be restricted on what they can upgrade since any souls gained will really be lost. Like if I start a new game without the ring, and get to a point in the game where I have 300,000 souls, I can upgrade my character's level, or level up my weapons/gear, but if I start a new game with the ring, then at the same point in the game where I'd have 300,000 souls, I'd have zero, so I can't upgrade anything, but I'll still be at the SM level I started the game with, so that "should' make up for going past SM without the ring if I was trying to stay really low in regards to match making at a further point in the game. I'd just have a low level character, and low level weapons/gear.

The ring appears to only work for "souls collected from kills during online play". So player kills and presumably mob kills by friendly summons.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Tsmp » Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:20 pm

DidoRumbus wrote:
Tsmp wrote:Now that it's actually possible to stop gaining souls, yes I think a community SM probably will catch on. Because, you know, SM is the matchmaking system that determines who you encounter, and people are going to target and stay at the range they feel is the most fair.

Even if the Agape Ring only stops souls gained from multiplayer like the patch notes seem to suggest, that just means you have to stop killing non-player enemies at a certain point. Which would mean... bonfire ascetics would be even more necessary. I think it's time to update my Dark Chasm guide a little bit.

I'm missing something -- why would ascetics become more necessary? I make my SL150-200 at 2 million SM (or low level, etc etc), same as before, but now I stay at that SM as long as I only PVP. It's not like I'm progressing through NG+'s on PVP characters. In fact the opposite, I tend to stick in NG bc crits are less.

Bonfire ascetics allow you to get stuff without spending souls or increasing your SM by refreshing the loot corpses and wooden chests in an area, such as more cracked red eye orbs or divine blessings. If you don't have souls to spend (and you won't), and if you don't want to raise your SM by farming, bonfire ascetics are the next best way to do it. And you can farm ascetics by killing players in the dark chasm, so you can get those without increasing your SM via the Agape Ring.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Jumilaattori » Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:51 am

Slim Cini wrote:Haven't played this for months. Was a ghost town back then. Will this make a difference and are there actually any people to PVP against?
Arena is pretty much insta summoned, opponent after opponent. Atleast on ps3. I think what makes the difference is shorter loading times +1 for that.

That ring.. Twinks, dunno how that can be good. Invade a poor guy and 1-2shot him with +10 elemental weapon just like in loldks. Low sm,high sm lv50 or max lv.. matters not in arena.

I would consider buying this to ps4 if arena had brackets like max 150, max 200 etc. And infinite uses vading item and +-20 soul range for vading and PvP outside of arena.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby keropi » Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:58 pm

The ring is a terrible solution. Is this the best they could come up with? bleh
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby DxV04 » Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:04 pm

BobbyPhoenix wrote:Like if I start a new game without the ring, and get to a point in the game where I have 300,000 souls, I can upgrade my character's level, or level up my weapons/gear, but if I start a new game with the ring, then at the same point in the game where I'd have 300,000 souls, I'd have zero, so I can't upgrade anything, but I'll still be at the SM level I started the game with, so that "should' make up for going past SM without the ring if I was trying to stay really low in regards to match making at a further point in the game. I'd just have a low level character, and low level weapons/gear.


I can't believe they would make the ring work that way. I would think the ring just blocks your SM counter from going up but you still capture souls to spend on items. I would be idiotic for FROM to block both the SM and your regular souls counter. It is not that hard to code for that. But we will see when the patch releases.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Tsmp » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:55 am

DxV04 wrote:
BobbyPhoenix wrote:Like if I start a new game without the ring, and get to a point in the game where I have 300,000 souls, I can upgrade my character's level, or level up my weapons/gear, but if I start a new game with the ring, then at the same point in the game where I'd have 300,000 souls, I'd have zero, so I can't upgrade anything, but I'll still be at the SM level I started the game with, so that "should' make up for going past SM without the ring if I was trying to stay really low in regards to match making at a further point in the game. I'd just have a low level character, and low level weapons/gear.


I can't believe they would make the ring work that way. I would think the ring just blocks your SM counter from going up but you still capture souls to spend on items. I would be idiotic for FROM to block both the SM and your regular souls counter. It is not that hard to code for that. But we will see when the patch releases.

Soul memory being frozen but spendable souls still going up would be very bad. Acquire the ring on one character, trade it to a character with 0 SM. Now you have a character who can hit SL838 with fully upgraded everything while still at 0 SM.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby chefchucko » Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:16 am

This all still feels like too little too late.
I loved DS and DkS 1, and never got sick of playing them. Mostly because there was a good PvP community, and the SL matching kept things mostly fair.
Sure there were frustrating moments where you could get invaded by a twink randomly, but those were few and far between for me. And if you wanted to avoid low level PvP until you had a comfortable build, you easily could. Just stay hollow/phantom and bam....no problem.

Now, I do like that you can be invaded while hollow....but outside of that, they broke a system that worked.
I've long felt the SM thing was a good idea, that they pulled off very poorly.
They should have realized that the community liked their niche little SL restrictions for PvP and tried to embrace that, not eliminate that.

But for me, the PvP falls short because of this SM garbage. If they could have put that in for NG, and then went to SL matching rather than SM matching for NG+ and beyond, then great...I'd live with it.
I don't think this ring will fix any of these issues for me...which is sad, because I REALLY wanted to like this game as much as I did the others.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby HazelrahFiver » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:49 pm

Mobs continually respawning when in the Covenant of Champions? Nice. I hope it refers to all mobs, and not just the phantoms that can drop Awestones. This would create a way to farm for the rare items without having to eventually go into the next NG cycle, or farm ascetics, both of which I hate having to do to farm for gear. It's an acceptable trade off because the mobs will apparently be harder to kill.

Agape Ring... um, what? It takes up a ring slot? Instead of actually fixing SM they have you take up a ring slot? I mean, I get that as long as you stay within your predetermined fights then everyone should be wearing the ring, but still. A random invader would mean that you are either at a disadvantage or will gain souls. I just... I can't... ugh... and what the hell kind of name is Agape by the way? I hope there is a translation to be performed!
Also, as Tsmp has already pointed out, this means that Hex Builds are dead in the water. I think it would work out if the ring actually stores the souls, with a counter you can even see, but they can only be spent on Hexes. I can't think of any downsides to this off of the top of my head. I'm sure this will not be the case however, and will be another example of From failing to balance the game :p

Bonfire menu will show the top three spots to find co-op? That means it also shows the top three spots to invade. I wonder if they thought of that?

Thank god they got rid of the calibration loading nonsense. Can't believe that stuck around for almost a year!

Skipping the ending cutscene/credits on the second playthrough... weren't we already able to do that? I mean, I know that I was. Starting in NG+ I could definitely skip the credits. In fact, I had to make sure that I did not in order to get my no-death ring (I forget the name lol).
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby HazelrahFiver » Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:50 pm

Tsmp wrote:
DxV04 wrote:
BobbyPhoenix wrote:Like if I start a new game without the ring, and get to a point in the game where I have 300,000 souls, I can upgrade my character's level, or level up my weapons/gear, but if I start a new game with the ring, then at the same point in the game where I'd have 300,000 souls, I'd have zero, so I can't upgrade anything, but I'll still be at the SM level I started the game with, so that "should' make up for going past SM without the ring if I was trying to stay really low in regards to match making at a further point in the game. I'd just have a low level character, and low level weapons/gear.


I can't believe they would make the ring work that way. I would think the ring just blocks your SM counter from going up but you still capture souls to spend on items. I would be idiotic for FROM to block both the SM and your regular souls counter. It is not that hard to code for that. But we will see when the patch releases.

Soul memory being frozen but spendable souls still going up would be very bad. Acquire the ring on one character, trade it to a character with 0 SM. Now you have a character who can hit SL838 with fully upgraded everything while still at 0 SM.


Well, all they have to do is stop the ring from being tradable.

Really, I think the best use for the ring is when two players, presumably friends beforehand, have been playing the game a while and either A) want one of them to catch the other so they can play together, or B) find they can play together as is, and wear the rings to make sure their time together lasts longer.

Any other longterm and conniving uses of this ring do not seem worth the trouble. It is an inappropriate fix/adjustment to SM, and frankly, not worth investing any time. How about we can just turn that s*** off From? Let us players who want to use SL only be able to interact with other players who go that route, and call it a day? Agape ring indeed!
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Vumsy » Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:50 pm

Agape ring sounds like bringing a horse to the water and forcing it to drink upside down on a step-ladder with a tea spoon. An extremely awkward tool to fix a problem otherwise easily fixed.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby louislogic47 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:22 pm

agree. Seems likes a very convoluted way to fix a problem of a problem that there was no need for. Getting twinked by a player once in a blue moon surely isn't worth all this.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby zeech » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:46 pm

I don't understand why everyone is surprised. Agape ring is a pretty typical Souls way to do things. (eg. name-engraved ring.)

Since the very beginning, Souls games has placed inconvenient and arbitrary barriers to "esport" competitive play:

Demon's: Certain upgrade materials are very rare to farm. Needs mules / dupes / exploits to get gear easily. Need to get soul-sucked to delevel for certain builds. No ping meter, random matchmaking means you could potentially get horribly laggy opponents.

Dark 1: Again, mules / duping / exploits required. P2P lobby system means signs don't appear consistently. But we have a SL-tiered PVP Arena. Still no ping meter, random matchmaking means you could potentially get horribly laggy opponents.

Dark 2: Now we have Soul Vessel so duping/mules arent as necessary. Ascetics means upgrade materials are easy to farm. Dedicated matchmaking server means signs appear fairly consistently. But instead we get Soul Memory, Name Engraved Ring, and now Agape Ring.
Still no ping meter, random matchmaking means you could potentially get horribly laggy opponents.


Like I said, I don't get why people are surprised at this. It's just how Souls games seem to be.

Rather than wishing for some half-assed "better solution", why not wish for what we -really- want, which is a Souls clone or spinoff that has modern esport features like lobbies, TruSkill/ELO matchmaking, competitive ladders / leagues, instant characters, auto-tournaments, ping meter / voluntary / region based matchmaking, friend invites, etc.

This reminds me of when the Infinite Souls glitch was patched out of Dark 1... people were complaining that it was necessary for competitive play, and wanted it left in. And were hoping for similar glitches to be present in a sequel. Seems typically "Souls" that its community are pussy-whipped to the extent that they have to beg for exploits and glitches just to get around the inconveniences imposed by the game, hah.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Tsmp » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:15 am

Hmm... I wonder if it'd be possible to buy the network beta test from From/Namco or something. I mean, they're practically two different games, right? Just take the code and spin it into a fan game, kind of like what happened with SSBM and Project M. Give them royalties or something for every copy sold, and sell it for like a buck.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Juli » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:40 pm

Agape ring bothers me because it seems like it was created to assuage complaints about unfair matchmaking for duels, but it fails to actually address those complaints. It's like they care enough to do something about it, but don't really understand what the problem is.

If they just don't care at all and Agape ring exists for some other reason, w/e.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Tsmp » Tue Jan 27, 2015 4:24 am

I'm pretty sure they do care, which is why they took the suggestion that was floating around the playerbase way back a few months after Dark Souls 2 came out. The Agape Ring is word for word what people were asking for back then (a ring that blocks soul gain), and I saw that idea being brought up right up until they actually announced it. Best fix or not, it's literally what people wanted.

And best fix or not, it does allow people to farm for eye orbs without raising their SM, stop their SM at an ideal point for co-oping or invading in one particular area, and makes it so you don't have to create a new character every time your SM drifts past your own level range if you want your fair pvp to be enforced by the matchmaking system. There's no denying it has flaws (eating a ring slot is pretty nasty), but it band-aids the most blatant issues SM has.

And honestly, if it becomes necessary for pvp then it's necessary for pvp, just like the Friend/Foe + Cling Ring was in Demon's Souls and the DWGR/Wolf Ring were in Dark Souls 1. Technically speaking you didn't have ring slots in Demon's, and if you need to wear the Agape Ring in Dark Souls 2 in order to be matched with the PvP crowd then that's what people are going to do, and from then on PvP builds will have only 3 ring slots. Except in the arenas, where you don't get souls anyways.

In hindsight, I probably should've opened this thread with a more informative tone than a persuasive one. Ah well.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby QwertyBoredom122 » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:22 am

TBH to me the Agape ring will break the only good thing SM ever did which was stop twinking especially combined with the cov of champions, just think for a second all you need do is get enough souls to reach the level to use the equipment you want then you put on the ring and enter the cov for unlimited respawning enemies (unlimited item farming) then use the minimal souls needed to upgrade.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby HazelrahFiver » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:45 pm

I don't think you can even use the Agape Ring to farm though. It is for online play only. We don't know for sure, but my guess is that this means that player kills will not add to your SM. It makes the ring extremely limiting in that you have to reach a specific SM and then NEVER kill any mob ever again, so long as you wish to stay in that SM range; and you also have to wear the ring for every PvP fight, including if you are invaded, so hopefully you have enough time to switch to it.

Taking up a ring slot is one of the lesser issues with this ring in my opinion. We already have four slots, and I don't know about you guys, but it never really felt like using all four slots advantageously made a big difference.

I'm also believing that the Champion of Covenants respawning does not go for all mobs, meaning that you can farm items without a limit. I believe they are referring only to the red npcs that are required to farm for Awestones, which is why they also increased their drop rate. Having a way to farm all mobs forever would break a core trend of the game.

They still want you to play the game differently from DeS and DkS. They still want you to level up as high as you can, while being forced to go into NG+, NG++, and beyond. That hasn't changed. All that's changed is that they've given players the option to halt their progress temporarily to fight at a certain SM for a time. That time can be forever if they wish, but it also means that they can never fight anything non-player again. The Agape Ring feels like a troll move if you ask me.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby BobbyPhoenix » Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:36 pm

HazelrahFiver wrote:I don't think you can even use the Agape Ring to farm though. It is for online play only. We don't know for sure, but my guess is that this means that player kills will not add to your SM. It makes the ring extremely limiting in that you have to reach a specific SM and then NEVER kill any mob ever again, so long as you wish to stay in that SM range; and you also have to wear the ring for every PvP fight, including if you are invaded, so hopefully you have enough time to switch to it.


So I tried the ring. You don't get any souls for any kills. Not in your lower right soul counter, and not in your soul memory. You get a soul symbol with the red mark through it when wearing it indicating you get no souls, so as long as you have it on, you get no souls at all.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Cam » Thu Feb 05, 2015 11:57 pm

If this Agape ring makes it into the PS4 edition, I just might not buy the damn thing at all.

They're making this game tedious to play. Tedious is the last thing you ever want your game to feel like at any point ever.
Convoluted and tedious.

At least before, soul memory would constantly go up and everyone could meet together at the top. Or even better, soul level divisions, like in the first two games. And if they really wanted to stop twinking, introduce a level requirement to greater equipment. I feel like the developers are focusing hardcore on the tiny details, as a result they can't step back and look at the whole thing and devise a solution on a larger-scale. Clumsy patchjobs over parts-replacement, if that makes sense.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Slim Cini » Fri Feb 06, 2015 6:56 am

Cam wrote:If this Agape ring makes it into the PS4 edition, I just might not buy the damn thing at all.

They're making this game tedious to play. Tedious is the last thing you ever want your game to feel like at any point ever.
Convoluted and tedious.

At least before, soul memory would constantly go up and everyone could meet together at the top. Or even better, soul level divisions, like in the first two games. And if they really wanted to stop twinking, introduce a level requirement to greater equipment. I feel like the developers are focusing hardcore on the tiny details, as a result they can't step back and look at the whole thing and devise a solution on a larger-scale. Clumsy patchjobs over parts-replacement, if that makes sense.


Agreed. It smacks of putting lots and lots of small annoying plasters over lots and lots of small holes...

A stitch in time saves nine and all that jazz. Only they didn't bother making, or evening finding, the initially required few stitches and are now just doing more and more bodge jobs.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Evil Champ » Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:38 pm

Have you guys seen the graphics comparison between PS3 and PS4?

Gamespot has perhaps one of the best made videos showing the difference.

Please watch and share thoughts

I never beat DLC. I got the first one, but messed up and started a NG+ and never got to it.

I will likely be getting this Day 1. I think it looks great.
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Re: Scholar of the First Sin: Patch Details (spoilers)

Postby Tsmp » Fri Feb 06, 2015 11:14 pm

The video looks sharper and the textures are a bit nicer, but overall it's hard to notice without the side-by-side comparison. Honestly, I'm really only getting it to justify the PS4 I bought on day one like an idiot.
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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