Faster weapon swing.

Faster weapon swing.

Postby mauledbyabeer » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:24 pm

Currently have a Halberd from the Door of Pharros that is over 300 in build infused with lightning. Problem is, it's slooow. I battle better with a +5 Broadsword because it attacks much quicker when an enemy is exposed. Is there a specific stat that could help swing weapons a bit faster? Dexterity seems to be the one but I feel like I'm wasting points on it, I'm more of a combat type of player rather than magic or pyro. Currently just not liking any specific weapons at this point... now I do like the red twinblade I recently discovered but hear it's not very durable.
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Re: Faster weapon swing.

Postby Skaftholu » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:38 pm

Not that I know of. If the weapon is slow, then it's meant to be slow. You could try pumping some points into Adaptability to see if that helps, but I don't think it affect weapon swing speed.
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Re: Faster weapon swing.

Postby mauledbyabeer » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:49 pm

Didn't think there was but was hoping to discover something I didn't know. I do hope in the future sequels DS producers put more into character classes and attributes that effect these type of things. I think I'm going to go with a twinblade (strength is 40) and start putting more points into faith and intelligence for distant attacks with slower opponents.
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Re: Faster weapon swing.

Postby MMDE » Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:27 am

I've been using the Sun Sword +10 quite a lot. It's upgraded through normal titanite (not twinkle etc), and so you can use items to apply fire and lightning etc to it whenever needed additionally to the normal rather high damage output it has with A/A (str/dex) scaling. Why do I use that sword? It's fast and while it might not do a lot of damage per hit, you can do a lot more hits with it faster, making it usually do just as much damage per second as the stronger weapons. It's also rather light, so I can put weight into shield and/or armor etc instead.

In any case, my experience is that speed is rather important in these kind of games. Being able to quickly damage the opponent before they are able to hit you or quickly do a single or similar attack and then defend before the enemy is able to do anything about it is very useful to doing damage without taking any yourself, and that I think is key in the Souls games. Yes, a massive weapon that puts the enemy flat of the floor for you to hammer on is good too, whatever makes you take out the enemy without killing them.

Look at magic too, casting speed is really important in some cases. I at least find it extremely useful if you want to quickly take out the enemy (like a black phantom or an invading enemy) before they even got a chance to attack you. Two equally strong casters throwing spells at each other where they both hit just as often, the faster one usually win. I remember my Vendrick fight, I boosted pyromancy, cast speed and attunement slots as much as I could through rings and equipment and went into the fight using only Gyrm Shield +10 and Pyromancy Glove +10 (though I had a sword ready to do some last damage if I ran out of magic), I would defend most of the fight, and keep the king running after me until I saw a small opening. I used the small openings to throw some very strong pyromancy spells, more precisely Flame Swathe and Great Fireball. The quicker I was, the less time did I leave my defense open. I pushed it to the point where if I only missed like one Flame Swathe and maybe a couple of Fireballs or no Flame Swathe and several of Fireballs, I would kill him. :p

But yeah, when the weapon is stronger and has some useful properties, it usually comes with some baggage like it being slower. It's a balancing issue. I know you feel like investing points into a certain stat should make up for that, but there should still be some balancing. I think you should be looking more at scaling and the other properties of the weapon and if they make up for whatever speed they have. Scaling is a good way of getting your investment in stats worth.
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Re: Faster weapon swing.

Postby Eruantien » Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:34 am

Also, out of curiosity, is the Halberd you have Santier's Spear or the Mastodon Halberd? Because if it's Santier's Spear, you can break off the rock by taking some time to smash the weapon against walls and corpses to turn the moveset into a Twinblade's moveset with unlimited durability. Although I'm not sure if SS can get over 300 even with lightning infuse. I will say if it's the Mastodon Halberd isn't too bad for some enemies despite the lack of speed. I use a mix of light and heavy weapons myself, and I think it all depends on the situation. For bosses I tend to use faster weapons, but for common enemies, especially late-game, I find that heavier weapons work better, because of their better poise damage.
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Re: Faster weapon swing.

Postby dunric » Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:56 am

As far as I know the speed difference at weapon swinging speed is when your stats meet or meet not weapon requirements. Somebody speculated about adaptability influence but it didn't worked for weapons I've tested.
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Re: Faster weapon swing.

Postby Evil Champ » Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:17 am

Flamberg is a fun weapon ... has exact same moveset but longer reach than Dragenlic Sword. Also does bleed damage. Not too shabby for duel wielding. It does about same amount of damage as Dragenlic Sword +2, when it is at +9, but also does bleed damage. (40 DEX)

Curved Dragon Great Sword. Fun.

Malformed Skull is a BLAST and has amazing moveset.

Pursuer sword just looks awesome. Haven't tried building it yet.

Arched Sword is just like Kumo, but moves quicker, IMO. It weighs a lot, though.
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Re: Faster weapon swing.

Postby LuizWsp » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:54 am

I have a fire Malformed skull, Moonlight Greatsword, Magic Mace, and Magic Blue Flame.

Stats are str18, dex18 and int 56.

The fire malformed skull is the one with better damage but I can only use it with 2 hands and it's very very slow. I rarely win a PVP match with it. The other day I battled with a double fist guy, it was akwardly funny, I could never hit him. At one point he made a big mistake and I hit him, taking about 75% od his health, but I couldnt finish him off. His fists on the other hand, he could hit me easily enough, taking chip damage, but overy often.

The Magic Mace is good dmg, fast enough, good recovery, but has no reach. Even in mobs, after I stun an enemy, I whiff some moves because it pushes the foe back enough to be out of reach.

The MLGS is a very good greatsword. It is not too slow, hits pretty well, the one handed r1 covers a wide space, the reach is very good, the damage is pretty good, it's my favorite weapon, although it's still easy to avoid in pvp (but when I hit them, it's worth it).

The Blue flame is like a stright sword. For me, the infused version takes less dmg, but it can also cast spells, and the spells take more dmg in the infused version, so that's why I picked it. The good thing about it on PVP is that I can use a shield, the blue flame for a quick meele attack and cast spells at the same time, so it's very hard to predict. It's dmg is not very good as other weapons, it's range is almost as bad as the mace, the spells don't hit as hard as the traditional staffs, but the fact that I can either attack with meele for a quick poke/punish and cas spells without having to switch to a staff is awesome for a pvp scenario.

Usually I start with MLGS + staff and switch to shield + blue flame if I want to be defensive.
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Re: Faster weapon swing.

Postby Astrichthyes » Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:54 pm

Greataxe... it's safe to say that the greataxes are so slow that literally ANYONE can stay out of its way. The fact that cool and powerful weapons like the Crypt Blacksword essentially have the gaxe moveset and simply cannot land a hit, but that a demon great hammer or dragon tooth can do so and even combo for significantly more damage than the single hit you'd otherwise be limited to with the Blacksword shows that some weapon movesets need a big upgrade. I have not seen a single gaxe in pvp, nor the blacksword, and i'm sure it's simply because it's so disproportionately slow compared to the other weapons. It's wonderful in pve, but every weapon in the game should be viable in pvp and that simply isn't the case (playing defensively and timing the roll r1 doesn't seem to matter). Even if they gave weapons like the blacksword a slight damage nerf for a fast enough moveset to actually be able to land a hit, i'd take it. The thing already weighs a ton and has relatively short range anyway, so you shouldn't be able to see the next attack from a mile and a half away. I actually had an opponent gesture and roll out before an attack connected...
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Re: Faster weapon swing.

Postby killface38 » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:02 pm

Astrichthyes wrote:Greataxe... it's safe to say that the greataxes are so slow that literally ANYONE can stay out of its way. The fact that cool and powerful weapons like the Crypt Blacksword essentially have the gaxe moveset and simply cannot land a hit, but that a demon great hammer or dragon tooth can do so and even combo for significantly more damage than the single hit you'd otherwise be limited to with the Blacksword shows that some weapon movesets need a big upgrade. I have not seen a single gaxe in pvp, nor the blacksword, and i'm sure it's simply because it's so disproportionately slow compared to the other weapons. It's wonderful in pve, but every weapon in the game should be viable in pvp and that simply isn't the case (playing defensively and timing the roll r1 doesn't seem to matter). Even if they gave weapons like the blacksword a slight damage nerf for a fast enough moveset to actually be able to land a hit, i'd take it. The thing already weighs a ton and has relatively short range anyway, so you shouldn't be able to see the next attack from a mile and a half away. I actually had an opponent gesture and roll out before an attack connected...

:D

Speak for yourself brother! I'm currently attached to the drakekeeper Greataxe +10. It's got great range, outstanding guardbreak, and crits that one shot any build under 20 Vit.

My record thus far is a parry/riposte with gold pine + ring of blades +1 for... ready for this:

3102 :shock:
...it's like World of Warcraft and Legend of Zelda got together, had a baby, tossed it a peculiar doll, and named it Dark Souls.
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Re: Faster weapon swing.

Postby Astrichthyes » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:39 pm

killface38 wrote:
Astrichthyes wrote:Greataxe... it's safe to say that the greataxes are so slow that literally ANYONE can stay out of its way. The fact that cool and powerful weapons like the Crypt Blacksword essentially have the gaxe moveset and simply cannot land a hit, but that a demon great hammer or dragon tooth can do so and even combo for significantly more damage than the single hit you'd otherwise be limited to with the Blacksword shows that some weapon movesets need a big upgrade. I have not seen a single gaxe in pvp, nor the blacksword, and i'm sure it's simply because it's so disproportionately slow compared to the other weapons. It's wonderful in pve, but every weapon in the game should be viable in pvp and that simply isn't the case (playing defensively and timing the roll r1 doesn't seem to matter). Even if they gave weapons like the blacksword a slight damage nerf for a fast enough moveset to actually be able to land a hit, i'd take it. The thing already weighs a ton and has relatively short range anyway, so you shouldn't be able to see the next attack from a mile and a half away. I actually had an opponent gesture and roll out before an attack connected...

:D

Speak for yourself brother! I'm currently attached to the drakekeeper Greataxe +10. It's got great range, outstanding guardbreak, and crits that one shot any build under 20 Vit.

My record thus far is a parry/riposte with gold pine + ring of blades +1 for... ready for this:

3102 :shock:

A riposte from the blacksword would probably shame that number, but it doesn't change the fact that it's slow. Drakekeeper's has a good moveset and good range by comparison (note: blacksword passed through 2 different opponents who were walking at my side without taking damage, so it may just be a faulty hitbox). Against a fast roller, you'll be hard pressed to land a hit, especially if they are skilled and focus on counterattack. Also, you have to consider the SL of the player you are up against. A simple damage number doesn't mean much compared to a SL and AR. My 170 currently has 714ar on dark CBS+4 and deals over 1k per normal hit buffed, but getting a hit against a player that has a fast roll or moderate adp investment is a matter of either huge luck, lag, or a huge mistake your opponent made. With the current poise mechanics, you'll get stunlocked by almost any weapon before you can land a single hit.

Here is my point: my blacksword can, at most, get a single hit at a time for 1k. My great club can get a 2 hit combo that does 1700+ dmg with knockdown. If I swap for dark dragon tooth, I could easily combo-kill almost all of sl 150-200 and OHKO with riposte while having a lower equip burden, a faster and better moveset, and more firedef and magdef. Or stick with the fast rolling logger.
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Re: Faster weapon swing.

Postby Blasarius Yonder » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:08 pm

Astrichthyes wrote:Greataxe... it's safe to say that the greataxes are so slow that literally ANYONE can stay out of its way. The fact that cool and powerful weapons like the Crypt Blacksword essentially have the gaxe moveset and simply cannot land a hit, but that a demon great hammer or dragon tooth can do so and even combo for significantly more damage than the single hit you'd otherwise be limited to with the Blacksword shows that some weapon movesets need a big upgrade. I have not seen a single gaxe in pvp, nor the blacksword, and i'm sure it's simply because it's so disproportionately slow compared to the other weapons. It's wonderful in pve, but every weapon in the game should be viable in pvp and that simply isn't the case (playing defensively and timing the roll r1 doesn't seem to matter). Even if they gave weapons like the blacksword a slight damage nerf for a fast enough moveset to actually be able to land a hit, i'd take it. The thing already weighs a ton and has relatively short range anyway, so you shouldn't be able to see the next attack from a mile and a half away. I actually had an opponent gesture and roll out before an attack connected...
I second, "Speak for yourself, brother!" I love the Great axe. It was the first weapon I rushed to find and upgrade, and when I got the Drakekeeper version I immediately maxed it too. Love them both.
Also saw a YT vid of a dude PvPing with a right hand Drakekeeper's Great Axe and a left-hand rapier, and he did extremely well with that combo.
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Re: Faster weapon swing.

Postby rkzhao » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:45 pm

When it comes to large weapon viability, while yes swing speed certainly plays a part, the long recovery time is really the main issue imo since it makes them so easy to roll BS.

To that end, I find great hammers movesets to be actually be among the worst. If we count curved GS as part of huge weapons, then in terms of moveset viability in PvP, I would rank it CDGS, Kumo, Lost Sinner/Pursuer, BKGAxe, Gaxe, GS, GHammer. Though some of the effective differences are minor enough to not really matter.

As for people on youtube "doing well" I can record videos of myself doing well with any weapon you can think of right now. Partly through the magic of selective editing but mostly because with how many people playing, the average duelers are still just bad.

Still, having something like an estoc off hand is at least the right approach. For the most part, to make up for the speed vulnerabilities in the large weapons, you want to have an off hand weapon to initiate offense to set up stunlocks or positioning into the heavy weapon for damage. There are actually some really good setups that way like Clay/Kumo powerstance. Actually having two weapons that complement each other kind of applies to a lot of dual wield setups. (I can go over some setups in more details if anyone actually cares)

On their own, really the only good extra large weapons are Kumo/Arced and CDGS. The rest take a little more work.

I find it kind of funny how DeS had the best weapon balance and they've continually screwed over extra large weapons ever since.
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Re: Faster weapon swing.

Postby KhalWeaver » Fri Apr 18, 2014 12:52 am

Agility is suppose to give you faster animation actions in general, fractions of a second difference & not sure if it affects weapon speed.

If someone with recording capabilities is up to it, they can do a min/max agility of weapon speed & see if it makes a difference.
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Re: Faster weapon swing.

Postby Astrichthyes » Fri Apr 18, 2014 1:41 am

agility only seems to affect invincibility frames and item use rate. I have seen no other benefits. That said, high agility fast rollers are very difficult to hit with anything larger than a clay and most abuse estus like it's going out of style. I had one fight where a guy had the full 110 agility, fast roll, and a bow. I could only land three hits on him in the whole match and he healed every time to full health. I didn't really stand a chance after half of my equipment broke from simple p-range hits. caused me to fat roll and halved my physdef. If adp caused weapons to swing more quickly, it would be a mandatory pvp stat. Instead, it seems agility is a necessity, although 90-100 seems to be a normal range. 110+ feels a bit too powerful with a fast roll, but that's probably just my own personal opinion since i'm using heavier weapons that don't appreciate the extra invincibility frames. As for roll bs, I wear jester chest so I don't have to worry about bs fishing
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