Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby Jumilaattori » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:18 pm

HazelrahFiver wrote:That means nothing, in my opinion. My SL250+ character, who I used to platinum the game, who completed NG+2, and who I farmed THE HELL out of the numerous times including using ascetics, is not yet at 15 million. This whole 15 million SM thing is a joke. Most characters won't ever get that high, the same as how most players won't ever put in that kind of an investment. The 15 million mark will be quite barren by comparison.
Again, unless the point is to farm something like the Giant Lord specifically, which is a horrendous design choice for creating a PvP toon on From's part.
Mate is SL 125 halfway ng+ doing mostly PvP with mates so soul gain is very low and he hasn´t farmed souls at all and he has 7m sm.

I have farmed giant lord and with soul+ gear its 500k+ per run and run takes let´s say 5 min. Doing PvP and you can get 2m in 2 hours.

HazelrahFiver wrote:That's adorable. Disregard a potentially serious problem by saying 'git gud.' Gamefaqs could use you posting on it more often instead of here. If builds cannot be made "equal" by the statistics of the game's parameters, then it is a trash system. No one who wants to focus on PvP, by using one of the dueling arenas for example, should have to worry about fighting people two hundred levels over them just because they needed to farm for something in order to fight their colleagues on equal ground.
People that want an advantage will level over 200+. People that want fair fights will stay at 150. Each to their own.

HazelrahFiver wrote:I absolutely have. Once I got over 2 million, and was on NG+, it became a wasteland by comparison. Sometimes I sat around for 20 minutes, fighting off a stream of over-leveled Blues, while waiting for a summon sign to appear. It was friggin' horrible.
You have to remember that your experience does not apply to all experiences. I had quite a bad time with this game, including the SM affecting my multiplayer experience. During my 160+ hours now I have found it to be extremely detrimental. If I am in the minority on this, great, but how many others are going to experience the same ugliness and turn the game off? I know that I am already on the verge of being done.
I noticed that people like to play their own game and advance faster in ng+. When I dropped my white I was instantly summoned in every area. Popular areas were full of whites.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby Tsmp » Thu Apr 10, 2014 5:24 pm

HazelrahFiver wrote:
Tsmp wrote:Let's not make the problem bigger than it really is. You aren't going to hit 80 billion before collecting the whole Mad Warrior set. It'll take longer than it probably should, yes, but if you're at the point where you're farming things for complete armor sets I'm willing to bet you've moved past the "worried about SM phase" and are well into the "applying the finishing touches to your build" phase. And on that note, SM restrictions are removed after 15 million. I just said that.


That means nothing, in my opinion. My SL250+ character, who I used to platinum the game, who completed NG+2, and who I farmed THE HELL out of the numerous times including using ascetics, is not yet at 15 million. This whole 15 million SM thing is a joke. Most characters won't ever get that high, the same as how most players won't ever put in that kind of an investment. The 15 million mark will be quite barren by comparison.
Again, unless the point is to farm something like the Giant Lord specifically, which is a horrendous design choice for creating a PvP toon on From's part.

Tsmp wrote:This is absolutely irrational, and your fears are founded on nothing but ignorance. What if, heavens and hells forbid, the SM ranges are actually reasonably wide enough to not block players off from each other after a spot of farming? Or even heavy farming? What if From Software isn't staffed entirely by idiots and there actually is a system in place to make it at least unlikely for you to be invaded by extremely high leveled players? You know, disregarding the fact that encountering people hundreds of levels over you, both hosts and invaders alike, was entirely possible in the previous game. Or what if, as we all already know, a SL120/150 build still has everything it needs to thoroughly whoop a SL 713/838 build and in the end what really matters is your own skill level?


That's adorable. Disregard a potentially serious problem by saying 'git gud.' Gamefaqs could use you posting on it more often instead of here. If builds cannot be made "equal" by the statistics of the game's parameters, then it is a trash system. No one who wants to focus on PvP, by using one of the dueling arenas for example, should have to worry about fighting people two hundred levels over them just because they needed to farm for something in order to fight their colleagues on equal ground.

Tsmp wrote:While playing the game, have you ever found yourself in a situation where you were completely incapable of finding players to summon or people to invade? I have not, and I'm one of the greediest players you'll ever meet.


I absolutely have. Once I got over 2 million, and was on NG+, it became a wasteland by comparison. Sometimes I sat around for 20 minutes, fighting off a stream of over-leveled Blues, while waiting for a summon sign to appear. It was friggin' horrible.
You have to remember that your experience does not apply to all experiences. I had quite a bad time with this game, including the SM affecting my multiplayer experience. During my 160+ hours now I have found it to be extremely detrimental. If I am in the minority on this, great, but how many others are going to experience the same ugliness and turn the game off? I know that I am already on the verge of being done.

I do not post on gamefaqs, and the point of that argument was not "git gud". Please don't just dismiss what I've said like that, you know how much thought I put into these posts.

The point I was trying to make is Dark Souls 2 is a different game. Yes, it is very much the sequel to Dark Souls 1, but enough has changed that I don't think we can approach it the same way anymore. Like I said at the end there, it is no longer infeasible to reach absurdly high or even maximum levels, and a large part of the SL120 range selection was based on feasibility.

Am I saying we should all just say fuck it and level our characters to max? No, there's no real reason to do that. Nothing at all says the pvp community can't simply select a SL for itself and use that. It's not something you can enforce, but technically speaking it was never really enforcable in the previous game, either. There was nothing preventing a SL400 host from just idling in Oolacile Township all day and fishing for red invaders, thanks to that pesky "infinitely up" clause. The pvp SL range was only ever decided by the community, on forums like these, where you could actually talk to the people you regularly play against and coordinate with them. And that is not going to change any time soon.

Just like it's always been, if you run into a gank squad or some uberhost while looking for fun matches, you just shrug and move on. You can't tell me those didn't make up more than half of your encounters in DkS1. How is this any different at all?

No, that has nothing at all to do with Soul Memory. But I say again, I don't think SM is quite as big a deal as you're making it out to be. You have 2 million SM on NG+; I have 4 billion. And that's not from farming, it's just from playing. PvP still nets you piles and piles of souls just like it did in the last two games. But you don't have to reach/pass 15 million just to pvp, because you can still find people at lower ranges. For the exact same reason why you can't sit around in the Undead Burg at level 50 and wonder why no one will summon you, you also can't sit around in anything pre-Drangleic Castle in NG with >1,000,000 souls and wonder why no one will summon you. And at 2 million souls in NG+, you're going to want to hang out in the pvp hotspots, exactly like in the previous game where the thing to do at SL 120 was hang out in the pvp hotspots fighting people, because you sure as hell weren't going to get summoned for any bosses. Right now, the biggest hotspot for pvp is on the bridge right at the start of Iron Keep.

All Soul Memory really does is sort players by how much time they've sunk into playing. If nothing else, you can at least be assured that you won't ever leave me behind. :P

Just give it some time, man. Most people are still trying to figure the new rules out, and not everything has fallen into place yet. But in the meantime, I'd just say keep playing while the devs sort out all this stuff with patches. Honestly, SM flies right on by. And once you have that and a whole bunch of upgrade materials, you won't ever need to make another pvp character again.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby zeech » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:48 pm

don't hate the playa, hate the game.

Its pretty much entirely From's fault, and I hope they fix it with a patch. Especially on PC, where save editing and memory hacking is trivial.

They just need to implement some sanity checks on each client. If someone connects to your game and their numbers are inconsistent (health doesn't go down when hit, soul memory is too low for stats/items available, stats are too high for SL, etc), then both players get an informative message and they each get the option to disconnect with no penalty.

This means cheaters can play with each other (and people who don't care) whilst legit players can protect themselves.

Since the souls games have very little randomness, its not hard to check the validity of a character.

It all boils down to Japanese devs being terrible at online games. they're getting better at netcode (slowly) but cheaters and hackers are obvious and there should have been protections in place from day one.

I guess if people complain about it enough to namco bandai they'll do something about it, hopefully.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby Cam » Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:55 pm

zeech wrote:don't hate the playa, hate the game.

Its pretty much entirely From's fault, and I hope they fix it with a patch. Especially on PC, where save editing and memory hacking is trivial.

They just need to implement some sanity checks on each client. If someone connects to your game and their numbers are inconsistent (health doesn't go down when hit, soul memory is too low for stats/items available, stats are too high for SL, etc), then both players get an informative message and they each get the option to disconnect with no penalty.

This means cheaters can play with each other (and people who don't care) whilst legit players can protect themselves.

Since the souls games have very little randomness, its not hard to check the validity of a character.

It all boils down to Japanese devs being terrible at online games. they're getting better at netcode (slowly) but cheaters and hackers are obvious and there should have been protections in place from day one.

I guess if people complain about it enough to namco bandai they'll do something about it, hopefully.

"Don't hate the player, hate the game" only applies if people are playing the game the way it was intended to be played.
As I've said before, Dark Souls II was not developed with the megamule in mind. If you'd like to blame someone for it, blame DomThyBomb. You can also blame all the people who went out of their way to get the megamule on their system so they could misuse it and give it a bad name. I don't see how From is at fault for any of that.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby zeech » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:10 pm

Nope, I still blame From. They made a car without any door locks, even though they know that car thieves are out there (and their previous model of car, also without door locks, was stolen all the time.)

Sure, the thieves are also at fault, but From takes the lions share for not implementing even the most rudimentary of protections. (Indeed, the SM system is even more abusable than the SL based matchmaking, so they even removed some protections that existed before.)

Ultimately, you could say that From didn't disallow cheaters (since the server and other clients still accept hacked connections) so in a (very very broad :P) sense cheating is part of the game, just like glitch techniques in Dark 1.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby Cam » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:30 pm

zeech wrote:Nope, I still blame From. They made a car without any door locks, even though they know that car thieves are out there (and their previous model of car, also without door locks, was stolen all the time.)

Sure, the thieves are also at fault, but From takes the lions share for not implementing even the most rudimentary of protections. (Indeed, the SM system is even more abusable than the SL based matchmaking, so they even removed some protections that existed before.)

Ultimately, you could say that From didn't disallow cheaters (since the server and other clients still accept hacked connections) so in a (very very broad :P) sense cheating is part of the game, just like glitch techniques in Dark 1.

Touché.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby rkzhao » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:41 pm

honestly, even without MM, I'm not a fan of the SM matchmaking. There are much better ways to reduce low level twinking even with MM. Instead, SM based matchmaking created an inherently less balanced system than SL based matchmaking because by it's design, it can allow for drastic differences in SL. Not to mention the co-op issues. I don't really know how they could have thought it was a good idea.

I'm not sure if it has actually been confirmed that SM based matchmaking goes away in NG+ but even then that's an inconvenient system since it requires any multiplayer focused character to go into NG+
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby HazelrahFiver » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:02 am

Jumilaattori wrote:Mate is SL 125 halfway ng+ doing mostly PvP with mates so soul gain is very low and he hasn´t farmed souls at all and he has 7m sm.


All right, so perhaps I just rushed the hell out of the game because it was stupendously easy. I've had no trouble finding action for now with new 150~ characters I have created. We'll see how long that lasts.

HazelrahFiver wrote:That's adorable. Disregard a potentially serious problem by saying 'git gud.' Gamefaqs could use you posting on it more often instead of here. If builds cannot be made "equal" by the statistics of the game's parameters, then it is a trash system. No one who wants to focus on PvP, by using one of the dueling arenas for example, should have to worry about fighting people two hundred levels over them just because they needed to farm for something in order to fight their colleagues on equal ground.


Jumilaattori wrote:People that want an advantage will level over 200+. People that want fair fights will stay at 150. Each to their own.


No, that isn't my point. My point is the other way around, that someone who wants to battle those who stay at the SL150 range may not have the option, because they have to farm the game like crazy for some drops and boost their SM into the sky.

Tsmp wrote:Nothing at all says the pvp community can't simply select a SL for itself and use that. It's not something you can enforce, but technically speaking it was never really enforcable in the previous game, either. There was nothing preventing a SL400 host from just idling in Oolacile Township all day and fishing for red invaders, thanks to that pesky "infinitely up" clause. The pvp SL range was only ever decided by the community, on forums like these, where you could actually talk to the people you regularly play against and coordinate with them. And that is not going to change any time soon.


Except that isn't true. I'm not talking about random invasions, I'm talking about organized PvP, or at the very least, RSS summoning. That was entirely the player's, and community's choice, and it has been made less important. Even if you were not involved in a community at all, you could hold your Soul Level at 125 and, as long as you didn't go to certain areas like the forest, fight those around your level.

The biggest reason the whole thing upsets me is because having two hundred more levels, just as an example, over another player means a decent enough chunk of hp and defense added, even excluded the possibility of having more points in stats like VGR or VIT.

Tsmp wrote:You have 2 million SM on NG+; I have 4 billion. And that's not from farming, it's just from playing. PvP still nets you piles and piles of souls just like it did in the last two games.


I'm not sure how to respond to this. To have four billion souls and only in NG+, without farming, would mean a plethora of deaths against every boss... or something. I don't even know.
As far as PvP yielding a bunch of souls - hell no it doesn't. Most of the time you get around 1,500, at the SL150 range anyway. It's almost nothing compared to what you get in DkS.

Tsmp wrote:Just give it some time, man. Most people are still trying to figure the new rules out, and not everything has fallen into place yet. But in the meantime, I'd just say keep playing while the devs sort out all this stuff with patches. Honestly, SM flies right on by. And once you have that and a whole bunch of upgrade materials, you won't ever need to make another pvp character again.


You are correct in that I should just let this go, though it won't be to play the game further. I have to admit that the majority of my vitriol does stem from the fact that I pretty much hate the game. It's easily the worst of the three Souls titles for me, and I should not be bothering to invest myself so much in debating it's value. I suppose that's the hitch though, that I am emotionally struck because I feel like one of the few series I love is basically over. I don't even want them to make another now, not after how DkS2 turned out.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby HazelrahFiver » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:05 am

rkzhao wrote:honestly, even without MM, I'm not a fan of the SM matchmaking. There are much better ways to reduce low level twinking even with MM. Instead, SM based matchmaking created an inherently less balanced system than SL based matchmaking because by it's design, it can allow for drastic differences in SL. Not to mention the co-op issues. I don't really know how they could have thought it was a good idea.

I'm not sure if it has actually been confirmed that SM based matchmaking goes away in NG+ but even then that's an inconvenient system since it requires any multiplayer focused character to go into NG+


Spot on.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby zeech » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:20 am

I'm a fan of the Devil May Cry series. Compared to how Capcom treated that series, the Souls games have been treated with immense respect by From :P

Ultimately you just have to accept that lightning never strikes twice. Even if they made exactly the same game again, your skills and expectations have changed so you'll never get the same wow factor again. And if you want them to make a revolutionary experience each time, then you've set the bar too high.

Eg. I never liked Bioshock and BS:Infinite because I think the depth and atmosphere are inferior to System Shock 2. But I accept that they are different games to be enjoyed on their own merits.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby Dellusions » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:19 am

spacehamster wrote:
Jumilaattori wrote:Bamco is about to start banning megamule users and everyone who has hacked/modded save file. There was an article on their support site. It was posted all over gamefaqs.


Good. All I'm getting from that conversation M3nnoch posted is the usual - cheaters don't think it's bad to cheat, that's why they do it.

I could sort of understand it in DkS on the PC if people used CE to just give themselves whatever amount of souls they needed to get to 125, instantly have the build they wanted to try and then ran through the game to get the gear they needed. That doesn't really seem like cheating as it puts you on an equal footing with potential PVP opponents, it's just a faster way to try out different builds. But now there are Soul Vessels, and matchmaking is done via soul memory, so that's all out the window.

As for the Mad Warrior set and the like, the whole point is that it's hard to get. I don't necessarily mind people cheating to get the ultra-rare gear because they want to see what it looks like, but to me that completely defeats the purpose of playing the game. Might as well just watch the end credits on Youtube and not bother at all.


It's not about getting the stuff on NG+++ or beyond, or cheating to get it, it's about trying to get it for your 7th time, on the 30th character you've made it through the game with, just to PVP.

MM being used to invade low levels is complete BS of course, but if it's SL0 and we take it to some remote part of the game and do dueling leagues with it we'll obviously be able to get only each other to fight with. Using the bottomless box glitch in DkS1 was the same thing, some people would use it for BS reasons, but the rest of us either use it to test things, or to make 20 quick PVP builds to try things out. I get that there are soul vessels now, but you still need to make all the weapons, and get all the materials and souls for them. I filled 2 accounts with characters legit in DkS, and then filled 2 more with the mules, and will likely do the same with this game as well. I'm not at the point where I've done "everything" yet though.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby M3mnoch_1987 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:43 am

Dellusions wrote:
spacehamster wrote:
Jumilaattori wrote:Bamco is about to start banning megamule users and everyone who has hacked/modded save file. There was an article on their support site. It was posted all over gamefaqs.


Good. All I'm getting from that conversation M3nnoch posted is the usual - cheaters don't think it's bad to cheat, that's why they do it.

I could sort of understand it in DkS on the PC if people used CE to just give themselves whatever amount of souls they needed to get to 125, instantly have the build they wanted to try and then ran through the game to get the gear they needed. That doesn't really seem like cheating as it puts you on an equal footing with potential PVP opponents, it's just a faster way to try out different builds. But now there are Soul Vessels, and matchmaking is done via soul memory, so that's all out the window.

As for the Mad Warrior set and the like, the whole point is that it's hard to get. I don't necessarily mind people cheating to get the ultra-rare gear because they want to see what it looks like, but to me that completely defeats the purpose of playing the game. Might as well just watch the end credits on Youtube and not bother at all.


It's not about getting the stuff on NG+++ or beyond, or cheating to get it, it's about trying to get it for your 7th time, on the 30th character you've made it through the game with, just to PVP.

MM being used to invade low levels is complete BS of course, but if it's SL0 and we take it to some remote part of the game and do dueling leagues with it we'll obviously be able to get only each other to fight with. Using the bottomless box glitch in DkS1 was the same thing, some people would use it for BS reasons, but the rest of us either use it to test things, or to make 20 quick PVP builds to try things out. I get that there are soul vessels now, but you still need to make all the weapons, and get all the materials and souls for them. I filled 2 accounts with characters legit in DkS, and then filled 2 more with the mules, and will likely do the same with this game as well. I'm not at the point where I've done "everything" yet though.


And this is pretty much my stand point mate - Im not apposed to the use of the mega mule in general just feel that it has come out way to soon in the games life span and because of this people are using it more for griefing than it would have had it only been released say 6 months down the line when the PvP etiquette has been established.

Im glad it is helping people out doing tests and that people are using it for organised PvP purposes but I still definitely feel that its too early and has put quite a big black mark against the game :-/
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby Tsmp » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:59 am

HazelrahFiver wrote:
Tsmp wrote:You have 2 million SM on NG+; I have 4 billion. And that's not from farming, it's just from playing. PvP still nets you piles and piles of souls just like it did in the last two games.


I'm not sure how to respond to this. To have four billion souls and only in NG+, without farming, would mean a plethora of deaths against every boss... or something. I don't even know.

Deaths...? What?

What do you mean deaths? SM doesn't count the souls you lose, it counts any and all souls you've ever acquired. Dying is not necessary.

Gosh, you're dramatic today. The series isn't over just because of a few clunky design decisions. If it doesn't end up working out, they're going to patch it, just like they did with the previous game and all the crazy-ass game breaking shit it had when it first came out. :?

... This is going to sound strange, coming from me. And that's because it's true, even if I don't agree with it:

Ultimately, the SL120/whatever pvp range is not really that big of a deal to the game. If anything, establishing a community-decided level range for the sake of fair and balanced pvp works to the detriment of other people who just want to play the game their own way and have to keep their characters at that level range if they ever want to find more people to play with, because that's the range everyone stopped at because it's the range everyone else stopped at, etc ad infinitum. This SM thing allows those players who aren't interested in serious, competitive pvp to just do whatever they want and still be matched with people who have at least played about as much as they have.

Fair and balanced pvp is fun. But ultimately, we are only a small section of this game's playerbase. And even then, I wasn't kidding when I said I think we're still going to just pick a SL range and make our characters around that anyways, because nothing is stopping us. I already have two SL150 pvp characters, one for NG and one for NG+. It doesn't matter if people can make an overleveled character and invade people 200+ levels over them, they could already do that in DkS1 anyways. People who are interested in balanced pvp are still going to make characters the community deems fit for fair-pvp, for sake of having fair-pvp matches with everyone else. They're still going to have their fight clubs, with the rules and the whole shebang. SM doesn't take that away, it just makes it so that absolutely everyone else who plays the game and isn't interested in SL120 pvp isn't beholden to the rules we laid down for ourselves. Because honestly, they shouldn't have to be. It's not our game, it's just one we enjoy playing in a particular way.

Hell, what more is there to say, really? At this point, we've discussed the topic to death and back. We'll see how it works out, man. You have fun doing your thing, and I'll have fun doing mine. :truce:
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Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby spacehamster » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:44 am

Tsmp wrote:they're going to patch it, just like they did with the previous game and all the crazy-ass game breaking shit it had when it first came out. :?


Not that you need my help making your point, but from a recent post by... uh, you, actually.

Pyromancy was blatantly overpowered, damage-wise.
Iron Flesh was game-breakingly strong.
Power Within, on the other hand, was nearly unusable if not built around carefully. The damage it dealt to you per second scaled with your pyromancy flame. That said, no one ever tried using it with a broken flame...
TWOP WOULD NEVER END
The Magic Shield and Strong Magic Shield spells were buggy. And by buggy I mean casting them made you literally invincible for 30 seconds.
The Crystal Ring Shield could level mountains, especially when paired with the Moonlight Greatsword. Thousands of damage. Several thousands.
The Moonlight Greatsword, on the other hand, was kind of weak.
Lightning weapons were borked, and scaling weapons were kind of weak. There wasn't really a reason to use scaling weapons over lightning/fire/chaos weapons.
Chaos weapons used to need 30 humanity to max their damage instead of 10.
The item drop rate also needed 30 humanity for max instead of 10.
Queelag's Furysword was just stupid good.
Greatsword weapons could actually stunlock two-handed. All of them. Yes, including Artorias's and the Man-Serpent's.
The Hornet's Ring was so strong you could legitimately make a one-hit kill build around it.
You might remember the Dark Wood Grain Ring before it got patched.
The mom/dad/child mask were much, much more effective than they are now.
Lost Izalith was nigh-impossible to get through without cheesing the game somehow.
Curses used to stack, by the way. And humanity (for curse resistance) was very, very scarce. Good luck with that.
Farming was technically impossible.
Skeletons, ghosts, and mosquitoes didn't used to drop souls.
You won't experience this one yourself, but it used to be that summoning someone would split half the souls for killing things between the two of you, meaning you got even less souls than you normally would if you summoned someone to help you. Hence, most people didn't summon other players.
On the other hand, Gwyn was much, much easier due to the stronger crits.
It was technically possible to make a SL1 flippy giantdad.


It's a bit weird to me how people seem to forget who much DkS1 needed to be patched. The game was clearly unfinished or at least not beta tested nearly enough when it came out and still needed tons of fixes. Yet somehow people now act like it was a 100% perfect game, and anything and everything about DkS2 that isn't perfectly balanced is OMG THIS SERIES IS DEAD TO ME.

I don't get it, I really don't.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby HazelrahFiver » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:05 pm

spacehamster wrote:It's a bit weird to me how people seem to forget who much DkS1 needed to be patched. The game was clearly unfinished or at least not beta tested nearly enough when it came out and still needed tons of fixes. Yet somehow people now act like it was a 100% perfect game, and anything and everything about DkS2 that isn't perfectly balanced is OMG THIS SERIES IS DEAD TO ME.

I don't get it, I really don't.


In short, in my opinion, DkS wasn't fixed by the patch, it was changed. The game was great before any patches, and was the same after them: great. DkS2 is a mess right now, and I barely saw anything of value in the patch notes to change that. There's so much that needs to be changed that I can't imagine it possible for the game to ever be good. It would have to become almost an entirely new game.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby Jumilaattori » Fri Apr 11, 2014 1:10 pm

I enjoy doing some PvE, its a good change. Working for my gear and getting a rewarding feeling when I get to use it in PvP. Eventually I´ll have everything with this one toon.

Mixing PvE and PvP is best ever, farming is best ever and soul vessel system is best ever.

I understand the points Rk made completely and this

Dellusions wrote:It's not about getting the stuff on NG+++ or beyond, or cheating to get it, it's about trying to get it for your 7th time, on the 30th character you've made it through the game with, just to PVP.
but to release a mm just after 2 weeks is lame.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby Crab Rangoon » Fri Apr 11, 2014 6:01 pm

All I've really done with MM is test, respec & retest builds in the arenas on an alt. That's the thing I really love about the MM, load the game up and speedrun through either Ornstein or Chariot and begin enjoying endless arena fun. I'm not ruining anyone's game by taking their humanity or slowing their progress. I don't even have much fun with traditional invading anymore because such a high number of hosts I cross end up hiding or disconnecting. I understand that people don't like it, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I don't recall a lot of people turning down the opportunity to take and pass-along the OG mule we spread on this forum for BB'ing across all 10 character slots, ages before MM came to be (which arguably didn't come with spells/miracles/pyros).

HazelrahFiver wrote:In short, in my opinion, DkS wasn't fixed by the patch, it was changed. The game was great before any patches, and was the same after them: great.

Space neglected to point these out, but your statement sounds like perhaps you never played against people abusing Fog Ring or Iron Flesh before the very first patch? :lol:
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby Blasarius Yonder » Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:38 pm

M3mnoch_1987 wrote: Yes we had glitches and dupes in DeS which i did plenty of myself however only after the game was established.

I have a question for the OP regarding this^ comment, and other similar comments you made. It sounds like the only problem you really have with twinking Dark Souls (2) is that the game must not be brand new, is that right? If so, I strongly disagree. Just because many of us start a game at launch doesn't mean everyone does. Dark Souls, and even Demon's, believe it or not, still have a thinning stream of noobs picking them up for the first time. In fact I just played Demon's for the first time last year. Immediately got invaded by a twink in 2-1, then went offline.
I appreciate everything you said to your twink EXCEPT for the implication that it's somehow okay to grief noobs once the game is established. Whether the game is brand new or 5 years old, only the truly pathetic have to resort to those tactics.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby plaintomato » Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:03 pm

Blasarius Yonder wrote:
M3mnoch_1987 wrote: Yes we had glitches and dupes in DeS which i did plenty of myself however only after the game was established.

I have a question for the OP regarding this^ comment, and other similar comments you made. It sounds like the only problem you really have with twinking Dark Souls (2) is that the game must not be brand new, is that right?

That's right. For me at least. There's a whole different experience on offer when a Souls game releases, and a year after it's release. You've gotta play day 1 to get the most out of it, and the MM just really cut short that early limited time only experience.

But whatever. I beat the game a few times. Grinded all the gear I can be bothered to grind, even tediously tracking off of that pre-release "all items in the game" list that was floating around to keep track. Made one uber-complete build and a couple that were complete enough for PVP. And now I just finished my challenge runs for the illusory rings.

Now that that's done, I'm downloading the MM today. I don't like that it's out this early, but it is, so I'll grab it now. Not sure when I'll get to using, I've got another legit build or two in me, but I'll want it sooner or later so I'd rather have my new legit builds on a save with 8 MM slots rather than 5 blanks so there it is.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby MMDE » Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:10 pm

As far as blame goes. I blame FROM for not making it harder to do and not stopping it. I don't blame FROM for it existing or using it, I blame the people who does that for that. ;)

As far as soul memory goes, interesting idea, not really that cool in practice. It sure goes with the mentally of it getting harder for those who suck, but it just further pushes the limit on people making characters especially for PvP. Normal people will not have good PvP characters, as they will have spent souls on something not very beneficial.

When it comes to Soul Vessel for PvP? Sure you need to fix your stats perfectly for a build, but the more you spend on things other than leveling up, the worse your character gets compared to your opponents', so you really want to make a build for only one type of weapon. Changing build means changing weapon, which means spending more on something not related to leveling up. It hurts to experiment.

The more you PvP, the more you better spend on leveling up, else you will be stuck further and further behind your competition.

I'm fairly sure it's super easy to make a MM file too. It could have been made harder.

Detecting cheaters? I guess you could look at what they got and what is possible to get. I'm guessing people will discover what it is that gets detected and try to fix the file thereafter. For example if you got x amount of an item in x situation, then you're a cheater. They will just adjust down x item etc.

One thing they can do is compare SM with currently held souls and current level (subtract depending on starter level etc). That will fix a lot of things!

I still don't like the SM idea though.

EDIT:
Oh, and I remember I saw a stream at the day of the NA release, where someone had infinite health. People cheated at day one.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby Blasarius Yonder » Sat Apr 12, 2014 7:13 pm

plaintomato wrote:
Blasarius Yonder wrote:
M3mnoch_1987 wrote: Yes we had glitches and dupes in DeS which i did plenty of myself however only after the game was established.

I have a question for the OP regarding this^ comment, and other similar comments you made. It sounds like the only problem you really have with twinking Dark Souls (2) is that the game must not be brand new, is that right?

That's right. For me at least.

Okay, but you aren't the OP, right? (I don't mean that sarcastically if that's how it sounds.) Unless maybe it's an alt acct.? Openly cheating is one thing, but cheating while condemning other cheaters because they don't follow your rules for acceptable cheating is another. (Not that the OP is neccesarily doing that, I just kind of inferred it from their post.)
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby HazelrahFiver » Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:18 pm

Crab Rangoon wrote:Space neglected to point these out, but your statement sounds like perhaps you never played against people abusing Fog Ring or Iron Flesh before the very first patch? :lol:


I did. My statement stands.
To explain extremely quickly, I never had a problem with the Fog Ring, not one bit. I think it was made useless, not fair, by the big patch. As far as Iron Flesh goes, don't get in range, that was the answer.
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby Alluboy » Fri Apr 18, 2014 6:08 pm

So.. if MM gives you huge amount of souls with 0 SM, wouldn't it be fixed easily (and even if MM never existed, SM would make so much more sense this way) if they changed the SM to keep track of souls you've SPENT, and not earned?

That way, these fuckers can't have SL xxx with 0 SM. They are FORCED to increase SM through level ups.

Not only would MMs be less of a problem, but it balances online for legit players as well, and both Co-op and PvP will definitely be more busy, since the constant boss/player kills no longer take the player further, and further away from others. :)

Well, at least that's what I think!
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby QwertyBoredom122 » Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:21 pm

Alluboy wrote:So.. if MM gives you huge amount of souls with 0 SM, wouldn't it be fixed easily (and even if MM never existed, SM would make so much more sense this way) if they changed the SM to keep track of souls you've SPENT, and not earned?

That way, these fuckers can't have SL xxx with 0 SM. They are FORCED to increase SM through level ups.

Not only would MMs be less of a problem, but it balances online for legit players as well, and both Co-op and PvP will definitely be more busy, since the constant boss/player kills no longer take the player further, and further away from others. :)

Well, at least that's what I think!


An easier method would be scrap SM match making and go by SL like every other game, compared to Demon's and Dark Souls 1 the amount of weapons and items available at low soul levels for griefers is so much lower (no non-scaling elemental weapons for example) and if From listened to the community and put min requirements on armour and upgrades then you would be FORCED to level up to use certain things and to a degree they have done this, the fact that forcing players to level to use end game equipment would completely remove griefing (unless a certain matchmaking feature is present...........)
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Re: Talked to a mega mule troll yesterday

Postby zeech » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:54 pm

Well, originally everyone assumed it was a combination of SM and SL, so i don't see why it can't be like that. Just make the name engraved ring ignore all restrictions and everyone is happy.

As an anti hacking feature, just have a sanity check - A certain minimum SM is calculated from your items and upgrades.
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