Getting Backstabbed/chained?

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Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby pep-pock1 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:40 pm

there are 3 different types of ways to initiate BS

1. run BS
(run toward the side of the opp. and R1 when the back appears)

2. roll BS
(roll toward the opp. while they are locked in attk animation and R1)

3. non-lock BS
(unlock the opp. and consistently roll to get into a position that you are able to bs them R1)

Method against BS:
[The way to fight against getting BS'd is to walk diagonally while consistently switching the position of the angle of the walk]
*note #2 and #3 will still get you if you are walking in 1 direction consistently, so switch the angles every 3 seconds

---

there are 3 different types of chain BS
what is chain BS?
(chain BS is when after the initial BS occurs you go for another one, hence "chain-BS")

1. position chain BS
(position yourself in a manner that when the opp. comes back up ie: right side you can simply press R1)

2. delay chain BS
(you delay running toward them for the second BS and you let them roll once then while in roll animation you BS, R1)

3. pivot chain BS
(difficult to explain, but it involves the reverse of the position BS *reverse step order*)

Method against chain BS
[1. roll toward the opp. either to left or right depending on their position, this will register the game as if you are *face-to-face*, and they will swing instead of BSing you]

[2. do not move at all, either L1 or stand still and wait until you see his swing, DKS registers the stand-up animation differently than DS did, another method is to roll away from the opp. where they position themselves as they get up]

[3. roll away from the opp. from the side they are coming from]

MMG's edit: Here's the much requested video, thanks to Pep and EWGF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsp6k4830a0
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby mmghouse » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:59 pm

Welcome back. Interesting tactics. I haven't always been able to avoid chain bs by rolling toward or away from. I'll have to try the press L1 only move. What did you mean by "stand still and wait until you see swing"? Do you mean wait and then roll or wait and parry or w/e?
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby NorthernDragon » Fri Dec 02, 2011 12:48 am

PvP is just a large backstab fest and it seems that the hitbox for backstabbing is massive. There is no incentive to use any other tactics. I know I sound like a sore loser, but what point is there in PvP when all people try to do is Backstab spamming? And I mean, it's really bad when you get backstabbed, get up and, before you can even blink you're already backstabbed again and dead. At least in Demon's Souls, you could offset the damage a little bit with spells like Second Chance or Warding, but they had to gimp that too. I wish that From Software would adjust the backstab hitbox and the lag associated because I get people backstabbing me from all angles yet it's a b*tch for me to be able to backstab anyone.
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby pep-pock1 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:04 am

mmghouse wrote:Welcome back. Interesting tactics. I haven't always been able to avoid chain bs by rolling toward or away from. I'll have to try the press L1 only move. What did you mean by "stand still and wait until you see swing"? Do you mean wait and then roll or wait and parry or w/e?


ty,

by "stand still" or L1, i mean wait for them to try and delay chain bs you

(only works vs delay chain bs, regular chain bs may still get you)

what i meant by stand still is that if you do this BS cannot immediately register, but they will still be in a better position thats why you roll

standing still too long = r1 spam
so dont do it

(try testing it yourself it works the BS will not reg immediately it will make the opp. just R1)

NorthernDragon wrote:PvP is just a large backstab fest and it seems that the hitbox for backstabbing is massive. There is no incentive to use any other tactics. I know I sound like a sore loser, but what point is there in PvP when all people try to do is Backstab spamming? And I mean, it's really bad when you get backstabbed, get up and, before you can even blink you're already backstabbed again and dead. At least in Demon's Souls, you could offset the damage a little bit with spells like Second Chance or Warding, but they had to gimp that too. I wish that From Software would adjust the backstab hitbox and the lag associated because I get people backstabbing me from all angles yet it's a b*tch for me to be able to backstab anyone.


tbh, i dont like the BS mechanic either but i found a few ways to minimize it instead of just saying how "op" it is, hence the tactics to use against it

in DS you could offset the dmg by blocking or rolling.

if its a pain for you to BS somebody, just practice its all you need
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby DxV04 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:05 am

today practicing with a real good BS I managed to find a way to eliminate the chain BS. What I have been doing is while I am getting up from the floor I lock on the guy and my toon turns around automatically. He could not chain BS. It worked almost 100% of the time. Has anyone else tried this.
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby Juli » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:20 am

Pepero, no offense man, but I know what you're trying to describe and still can't understand what you're saying.
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby pep-pock1 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:56 am

DARKNESSxVEGA wrote:today practicing with a real good BS I managed to find a way to eliminate the chain BS. What I have been doing is while I am getting up from the floor I lock on the guy and my toon turns around automatically. He could not chain BS. It worked almost 100% of the time. Has anyone else tried this.

its basically the same thing as chain BS method #2, the game is really slow to register lock, which is why some do non-lock
step 1, get up
step 2, adjust view to target

it cant do both

Saturday-Saint wrote:Pepero, no offense man, but I know what you're trying to describe and still can't understand what you're saying.


if we are both on ill show you exactly what im talkin about
(you can also ask jumi, ace, or xain as well. i showed em how to avoid it)
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby Soul Remains » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:33 am

If you could hook up with someone that can make videos and explain exactly what is going on onscreen then it would probably be a lot more helpful. If I could capture video I'd do it myself.
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby NITR8s » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:28 am

I once was chaining backstabs with my level 35 agaisnt a much higher level and after about 8 backstabs in a row, one more would have killed him. Another blue invaded and got in my way and the guy I was BS chaining just killed me in one hit.

I guess I deserved it, but their was no other way I was going to be able to kill this guy as my hits barely scratched his full havel, high level toon.
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby goebel073 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:24 am

If the chain BS is consistently being executed with perfect timing and proper positioning/spacing, it's almost impossible to escape because the escape window is so tiny (we are talking maybe a few microseconds, best case scenario). Once these types of players get you on even ONE BS, you are pretty much done, sorry to say.

Your best defense is avoid getting BS'ed in the first place. Don't make any moves that you know will put yourself at risk.
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby rkzhao » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:22 pm

honestly I haven't touched DkS since UMvC3 but even back then i could chain BS with about 75% if i actually went for it.

The BS mechanic in DkS makes it so whoever lands a BS 1st pretty much wins in "competitive" play. All the game mechanics come together to make going for run BS a minimal risk high reward tactic.
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby Zankes » Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:32 pm

I don't get this, somebody should make a video where he shows this all...
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby raytheboi » Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:26 pm

great this makes more since to me then a video thanks i just learn better from precise directions
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby pep-pock1 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:49 pm

Zankes wrote:I don't get this, somebody should make a video where he shows this all...


i will try and get somebody to record how to avoid the chain stabs

ie: they chain stab me / i get out

its actually very simple and very easy
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby Vumsy » Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:57 pm

rolling away, left or right doesn't work, BELIEVE ME I've tried. best thing to do, is wear a piece of kirk armour, and roll towards them. A) you both deal damage at the same time and neglect the BS damage while still being trapped in the animation. B) you'll take a swing as they mess up. C and most likely) you'll get BS'ed again and die. :|
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby pep-pock1 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:09 pm

Vumsy wrote:rolling away, left or right doesn't work, BELIEVE ME I've tried. best thing to do, is wear a piece of kirk armour, and roll towards them. A) you both deal damage at the same time and neglect the BS damage while still being trapped in the animation. B) you'll take a swing as they mess up. C and most likely) you'll get BS'ed again and die. :|


you have not tried enough or the methods posted

kirks does not work vs

regular chain bs and pivot chain bs

it will only work vs delay chain bs

and i never said roll left or right NEVER EVER roll left or right

its either away or towards only

i will just let the video do the talking, it just easier (started to look for recorder atm)

(note)

i am not saying thorns is a bad idea it does help vs delay chain bs and also helps tremendously vs dragon body users and no poise opponents
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby jake101 » Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:15 pm

ive been chaining bs myself now and i feel a little guilty, but then i realise if i dont do it first my opponent will. ive been noticing you can cancle the bs dmg sometimes to. my suggestion to others is practice with a friend using fist and youll learn real quick how it works.
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby pep-pock1 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:59 am

if anyone that knows chain bs/delay chain bs with a recorder wants to volunteer let me know

*cough* rkz... *cough* AM180... ;)

otherwise ill look for someone in one of the chats or something
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby AM180 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:07 am

pep-pock1 wrote:if anyone that knows chain bs/delay chain bs with a recorder wants to volunteer let me know

*cough* rkz... *cough* AM180... ;)

otherwise ill look for someone in one of the chats or something


Happy to give it a go, but I generally suck at "tutorials" or "training" of any kind, when I'm playing I don't really think about it, I just "do stuff". Also I don't really chain BS all that much, if rk can do it he'd probably be better.

Also, I have literally no idea what you mean by pivot chain BS...

Oh yeah, and this week is going to be busy for me so wont have a lot of time on.
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby Vumsy » Tue Dec 06, 2011 4:58 pm

Ok... I'll believe it when I see it, because so far, whenever I roll away, I get sucked right back into the backstab without any sign of a delay. :?

PLUS, kirk armour worked on a non-delayed backstab, although it was pretty random wether or not it did.
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby Synalon Etuul » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:17 pm

So, by running diagonally, do you mean, say, run backwards and to the left, and then after three seconds change to backwards and to the right, etc.?
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby pep-pock1 » Mon Dec 26, 2011 10:03 am

enjoy crybabies

:)

EWFG and I had a session (he made the tutorial) explained it very well

just 3 types were shown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsp6k4830a0
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby mmghouse » Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:03 pm

Stickied. And I took the liberty of putting the video in the first post to make it easier to find.
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby pep-pock1 » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:09 pm

lol no wonder i always ignore the sticky posts tbh

couldnt find it for a second :D
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby pep-pock1 » Mon Dec 26, 2011 11:38 pm

again keep in mind there are other ways

guard/parry/step methods as well
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby mmghouse » Tue Dec 27, 2011 7:17 pm

Actually, I'm going to move this to PVP.
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby fbodieslive » Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:08 pm

That video is amazing. I'm so gonna try that sprint delay BS:)
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby mankind » Wed Dec 28, 2011 4:43 am

bs is a tactic for those, who used twop and gw prepatch :D

i hate bs'ers :horse:

thx for the nice vid anyway.
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby Digitals85 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:25 am

B/s or no b/s pvp fails =\ </3
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Re: Getting Backstabbed/chained?

Postby mankind » Wed Dec 28, 2011 6:06 am

Digitals85 wrote:B/s or no b/s pvp fails =\ </3


pvp is great in dark souls, without bs it would be even better. bs is a main reason why pvp is not the best in dks, but don't use it, especially chain-bs, and pvp is as said, great. :D
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