Optimized Armor Combos

Discuss the multiple items and magic and miracle abilities of Lordran.

Optimized Armor Combos

Postby Jman1988 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:15 am

I'm putting these armor combinations up as a convenient resource for the community. It is open to edits and suggestions. Note that the following combos will always assume the headpiece to be either MoM or CoD. If you would like to see a reference of optimized armors that includes combos with different headpieces, follow this link: [Work In Progress]

General Rules

1a. When Wolf Ring is used to reach a certain amount of poise, the armor combo tends to have less efficient defense, but more efficient weight, compared to an armor combo that reaches that same amount of poise without Wolf Ring.

1b. Havel's Ring will eventually overtake Wolf Ring in poise-increasing efficiency. If you're fast rolling, it requires very high Endurance to reach this point (60+ tends to be the magic number, from my testing). If you're mid rolling, the amount of Endurance it takes for Havel's Ring to invalidate Wolf Ring is significantly lower (I'd say at most 27 to 30 Endurance, but it could be even lower. I'll run some tests at a later time). If you're fat rolling, you have an absurdly liberal amount of equip burden to work with, so the Havel's Ring will swamp any contribution that Wolf Ring has offer at any given level of Endurance. The only reason a fat rolling player would choose Wolf Ring is to exceed 121 poise.

1c. Using heavy weapons (and heavy armor to a lesser extent) narrows the period of time in which Wolf Ring holds a poise-efficiency advantage over Havel's Ring. The reason is that the heavier your gear is, the more Endurance it takes to fully account for the gear's weight. Wolf Ring loadouts obtain their early and long lead in poise efficiency because they become operable with a small Endurance investment, which lets them build a large pool of spare weight by the time that equipment loadouts with Havel's Ring become operable. The larger the pool, the more Endurance it will take for the Havel's Ring loadout to catch up to and surpass it. Conversely though, heavy weapons and armor make Wolf Ring loadouts take longer to start building that pool, which makes their lead smaller, which makes them lose their advantage quicker. It still can take a lot of Endurance though, so make sure to carefully compare the two rings when using heavy loadouts, instead of blindly picking one or the other.

2. When listing the optimal armor combos, I'll just be mentioning the pieces that give poise (with Wolf Ring if the combo mandates it). Any pieces I don't include are assumed to be 0 poise pieces, which are easily manipulable to fit your equipment load (since switching them around has no detrimental effect on your poise).

3. In the following list, I'll index the most highly efficient 0 poise chest pieces, gloves, and leggings that you should strive to use in combos with one or more 0 poise pieces.

Chest Pieces
Black Sorcerer Cloak
Maiden Robe
Sorcerer Cloak
Tattered Cloth Robe
Dingy Robe*

Gloves
Black Sorcerer Gloves
Maiden Gloves
Sorcerer Gloves
Tattered Cloth Manchette
Brigand Glvoes
Wanderer Manchette

Leggings
Black Sorcerer Boots
Sorcerer Boots
Heavy Boots
Brigand Trousers
Holy Trousers
Wanderer Boots
Maiden Skirt*

I put an asterick next to Dingy Robes and Maiden Skirt because they both have an irregularly high defense/weight efficiency. It's a really good idea, if your build is not too strained by very heavy gear, to make room to for these pieces in your combos.

0 poise pieces that are heavier than the ones contained in the list take a plunge in defense/weight efficiency, which makes them really poor choices. It's strongly advised that you find different methods of using up spare equip burden, like selecting a heavier poise combo to start off with, instead of getting 0 poise pieces that heavier than those on the list.

Let's move onto the armor combos!

21+ poise (for sustaining a 1HR1 katana/medium weapon hit)
Chain Armor + Knight Gauntlets + HSW: This is the lightest combo that allows for 21+ poise.

Armor of the Sun + HWW: This combo tacks on some weight in order to get some incredible returns on elemental defense.

Steel Gauntlets + HSW: This combo adds a little wieght in order to get a chunk of magic defense.

Giant Gauntlets: In the context of 21+ poise, the weight of this combo is a little absurd, but so are its defenses (in a good way, ofcourse.

31+ poise (for sustaining a 2HR1 katana/medium weapon hit)
Havel's Gauntlets + HWW: This is the lightest armor combo that allows for 31+ poise.

Armor of the Sun + Knight Gauntlets + Iron Leggings: This combo tacks on some extra weight in order to give up a chunk of magic defense for a chunk of physical defense. It's a worthy trade.

Black Knight Gauntlets + Giant Leggings: This combo tacks on a little extra weight in order to make some good elemental defense gains, but also a small loss of physical defense.

Black Iron Armor: While it's not terribly weight efficient (among top combos), it's not terribly heavy either. Its defense is not disappointing, however.

36+ poise (for sustaining a 1HR1 greatsword/large weapon hit)
Chain Armor + Giant Gauntlets + HSW: This is the lightest armor combo that will grant 36+ poise.

Armor of the Sun + Catarina Gauntlets + HSW: This combo adds 0.2 weight to the previous combo in order to have roughly identical defenses, but a moderate boost to lightning defense. The superior choice between these two is dependent on how valuable you find lightning defense to be.

Black Iron Armor + HWW: This is a middle-of-the-road combo that doesn't lack defense and doesn't suffer a heavy weight, but it excels in neither department.

Chain Armor + Havel's Gauntlets: This combo adds some weight in order to get a very big chunk of magic defense.

Armor of the Sun + Giant Gauntlets: This isn't the combo you think of when you think of poise efficiency, but it has tremendous defenses.

41+ poise (for sustaining two consecutive 1HR1 katana/medium weapon hits)
HWW (with Wolf Ring): The profoundly low weight of HWW results in a respectably efficient set.

Giant Armor + HSW: This is the lightest armor combo that allows for 41+ poise without Wolf Ring.

Giant Gauntlets + Giant Leggings: This combo tacks on some weight in order to pad defenses more efficiently.

Giant Armor + Knight Gauntlets: This weighs the same as Giant Gauntlets + Giant Leggings, and is similarly poise and defense efficient.

53+ poise (for sustaining a 2HR1 greatsword/large weapon hit)
Knight Gauntlets + HSW (with Wolf Ring): This is the lightest combo that allows for 53+ poise.

Catarina Gauntlets (with Wolf Ring): While it's not as poise/weight efficient as the previous combo, it's still very light, and has freakin' crazy defense/weight efficiency (particularly elemental defense).

Havel's Armor + HSW: This is the lightest combo that allows for 53+ poise without the Wolf Ring.

Giant Armor + Catarina Gauntlets + HWW: This combo isn't that much heavier than Havel's Armor + HSW, but gets a really nice boost to physical defense comparatively.

Giant Armor + Black Iron Gauntlets: This combo lacks good poise/weight efficiency (for a top combo), but gets some extremely formidable defenses in return, especially physical defense.

61+ poise (for sustaining two consecutive 2HR1 attacks from katana/medium hits)
Everything in the 21+ poise table (with Wolf Ring): This is pretty much self-explanatory, but you should be careful. For reasons discussed in Rule 1c, using the heavier 21+ poise combos with Wolf Ring will sometimes have mediocre comparisons to 61+ poise combos with Havel's Ring, in terms of spare equip burden.

Havel's Armor + Iron Bracelets + HSW: This is the lightest combo that allows for 61+ poise without the Wolf Ring.

Giant Armor + Giant Gauntlets + HWW: This combo trades in some poise/weight efficiency for a big increase to defenses, especially physical and fire.

Giant Armor + Havel's Gauntlets: This combo trades even more poise/weight efficiency for big defense increases (mainly magic and lightning).

76+ poise (for sustaining a 2HR1 Zweihander/giant weapon hit)
Everything in the 36+ poise table (with Wolf Ring): I'm not outright recommending this, so much as I am commenting on this. Truthfully, only some of the lightest 36+ poise combos can reach 76+ poise effectively. Without Havel's Ring, it takes a lot of Endurance for 36+ poise combos to become functional, and they become highly subject to Rule 1c.

Havel's Armor + Stone Gauntlets + HSW: This is the lightest armor combo that gives 76+ poise without the Wolf Ring.

Giant Armor + Giant Gauntlets + Giant Leggings: There's no need to say anything.

If you have questions or comments regarding the list, don't hesitate to speak them. If it's a contribution, then it might help someone out there, and if it's a question, I or some other forum member will likely answer it to your satisfaction.

Edit History
*edit* Finally added a 31+ poise table. Also, I forgot to give DidoRumbus credit for mentioning Eastern Gauntlets (with Wolf Ring) in the last edit. I suppose I'll just keep an edit log here.
*edit2* Whoops, I mixed up the weight numbers on Gargoyle Helm + Black Iron Gauntlets + HSW and Havel's Gauntlets + HSW. The latter is actually lighter (assuming MoM as the headpiece), which makes the former combo purposeless.
*edit3* Credit to Atlas for mentioning Havel's Gauntlets + HWW, which invalidates Havel's Gauntlets + HSW, if only barely. This led to switching HSW with HWW in a couple of other combos.
*edit4* Took out Black Iron Gauntets + Black Iron Leggings (with Wolf Ring), and replaced it with Guardian Armor (with Wolf Ring). Added Giant Armor + Knight Gauntlets. Organized various sections into spoiler tags to reduce clutter (Saturday-Saint's idea).
*edit5* Revised the opening statement and rules 1a, 1b, 2, and 3. Added Giant Armor + Giant Gauntlets + HWW and Havel's Armor + Iron Bracelets + HSW. Removed Giant Armor + Giant Gauntlets, Havel's Gauntlets + Havel's Leggings, Havel's Armor + Steel Gauntlets, Gargoyle Helm + Havel's Armor + HSW, and Gargoyle Helm + Havel's Gauntlets + HWW. There are no longer any combos with a headpiece that gives poise (this is necessary for a future project). Changed the description of some combos.
*edit6* FINALLY added a 36 poise table. Deleted Rule 4, and replaced Rule 2 with the former Rule 4. Added Rule 1c. Credit to mmghouse for mentioning Giant Armor + Catarina Gauntlets + HWW. Added Catarina Gauntlets + Black Iron Leggings. Added Armor of the Sun + Knight Gauntlets + Iron Leggings. Added Chain Armor + Knight Gauntlets + HSW (with Wolf Ring). Removed all combos (with Wolf Ring) from the 76+ poise table, and replaced them with "Everything in the 36+ poise table (with Wolf Ring)". Removed Havel's Armor + Knight Gauntlets. Removed "Anything with Wolf Ring." from the 31+ poise table.
*edit7* Slightly reworded Rule 2. Expanded Rule 3 into Rule 3a and 3b. Added Armor of the Sun + Catarina Gauntlets + HSW. Added Armor of the Sun + Giant Gauntlets. Removed Black Iron Gauntlets + Black Iron Leggings. Removed Guardian Armor.
*edit8* Added a couple of gloves to Rule 3b. Added HWW (with Wolf Ring). Removed Eastern Gauntlets (with Wolf Ring).
*edit9* Added a 21 poise table. Removed all combos (with Wolf Ring) from the 61+ poise table, and replaced them with "Everything in the 21+ poise table (with Wolf Ring)". Removed Catarina Gauntlets + Black Iron Leggings. Replaced it with Black Knight Gauntlets + Giant Leggings. Added Rule 4.
*edit10* Removed Rule 4. Condensed Rule 3a and Rule 3b into Rule 3.
Last edited by Jman1988 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:45 pm, edited 19 times in total.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Juli » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:27 am

Has MoM really been nerfed so hard that we care about helmet stats?
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby cronotis » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:06 am

Saturday-Saint wrote:Has MoM really been nerfed so hard that we care about helmet stats?

Jman1988 wrote:C) Switch your 0 poise headpiece for MoM. If you are too cool for school, you could alternatively switch your 0 poise headpiece to Wanderer Hood. If you cannot for the life of you figure out what to do with your spare weight, and you think that rules are for fools that drool in school, then switch your Wanderer Hood to Big Hat

Lol well caring about looks may be a thing of thie past. Mom's looking better than ever imo when you concider benefit/weight ratio, even with the 5% nerf.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby mmghouse » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:35 am

The MoM nerf doesn't sound bad enough to go to helmets, imo. It just makes CoD more viable if you are deciding between the two on a given build.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Atlas » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:44 am

Thanks! Was trying to find some decent armor ;)

http://tinyurl.com/8twd4dm
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Jman1988 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:15 am

Yeah, MoM is still essentially the no brainer choice. I'm just sad that From decided to continue making it irrational to pick any other headpiece, whether it gives poise or not (with CoD being a sole, debatable exception). That's why there's just a couple of mentions of Gargoyle Helm where barely justifiable, and nothing like:


Gargoyle Helm + Stone Gauntlets
Giant Helm + Black Iron Gauntlets
Gargoyle Helm + Black Iron Gauntlets + HWW
Giant Helm + Havel's Gauntlets
Giant Helm (with Wolf Ring)
Giant Helm + HSW (with Wolf Ring)
Gargoyle Helm + Catarina Gauntlets (with Wolf Ring)
Gargoyle Helm + Black Iron Armor + Stone Gauntlets
Gargoyle Helm + Havel's Gauntlets (with Wolf Ring)
Havel's Helm + Black Iron Gauntlets (with Wolf Ring)
Gargoyle Helm + Havel's Armor + Giant Gauntlets
Black Iron Helm + Havel Chest + Black Iron Gauntlets

Yeah, those would be dead seriously effective armor combos, if not for MoM. And nothing in the OP would be invalidated by a truly nerfed MoM.

Here I was, thinking I was being too facetious in the OP: I was saying that there's no real good reason to use something besides MoM (besides being too cool for school). However, that doesn't mean that I can't help out those who want to choose something different, especially for the occasional tournament that bans it.

*edit* added another dead serious combo. I wonder if there's anything else MoM robs the legitimacy of...
*edit2* added 4 more. Man, I'm sure glad that MoM is around to spice up the metagame!
*edit3* rearranged combos in order of least to most poise, and added 3 more.
Last edited by Jman1988 on Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby XYLER » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:34 pm

Hey Jman do you think that 53 poise is necessary with the slow down of greatswords? Only thing I can see it helping now is so spells dont get interrupted. But a very impressive list you have I used the 62 poise set up of steel gloves and HSW on my 40/40. I was able to fast roll with a clay, demons spear, and com bow. I had room to use the maiden chest. Worked very nicely.
Last edited by XYLER on Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Juli » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:18 pm

53 poise was never necessary. I don't think there's much difference in its usefulness now, though. If you don't have it, you get hit once instead of twice. If you do have it, you have a slightly easier time poisestabbing than before.

I'm not a big fan of Clay's change, personally. The stunlock really wasn't a problem...
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Atlas » Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:00 pm

Dingy Robes/Caterina Gauntlets/Wanderer Boots = maximum swag and 53 poise, if you're into that sort of thing.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Jman1988 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:57 pm

XYLER wrote:Hey Jman do you think that 53 poise is necessary with the slow down of greatswords? Only thing I can see it helping now is so spells dont get interrupted. But a very impressive list you have I used the 62 poise set up of steel gloves and HW on my 40/40. I was able to fast roll with a clay, demons spear, and com bow. I had room to use the maiden chest. Worked very nicely.

Glad it's useful to some people. It better had be, I spent two nights adding combos, inventing combos, and double-checking numbers.

As for the question... it's hard to say. It's really a metagame question, which is to say, the answer shifts based on metagame/popularity, instead of being a straight yes or no question. 76+ poise was more necessary when this game came out than it was some months later, because giant weapons were much more popular. Things that contributed to giant weapon popularity were things like everyone getting 40 Endurance (armor finally meant something, unlike in Demon's Souls) a lack of understanding the poise system (so the exact amount of poise wasn't as widely known), and the community had less practice with punish BSing. As time went on, A) giant weapons started getting punished more consistently, B) the huge influx of Giant MoMs definitely played a role in the decrease of giant weapon viability, and C) people became more able willing to trim Endurance (which had an inverse effect on the appeal of giant weapons). Eventually, the frequency of giant weapons decreased (at least from what I saw, and I played the game heavily until around late February), and Giant MoMs, although never uncommon, became relatively less meta and useful (also thanks to the community trimming their Endurance).

So, back to your question... I think it's too soon to be certain, but let's see if, in terms of popularity (not actual function), the changes to greatswords are like the changes to MoM (no effect on popularity and ubiquity), or if it's like the changes to dwgr (tremendous collapse to popularity). If greatswords take a dwgr-like dive, then yeah, 53 poise isn't useful. If the popularity stagnates like MoM, it is useful. If it does something in between... we have to see what the popularity is like a few weeks down the road. Also, don't forget that 53 poise covers the giant weapon 1HR1 (those require 51 poise to sustain a hit).
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby mmghouse » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:06 pm

Some of the buffs and nerfs are starting to sound like, underneath it all, poise got nerfed, too. I say this because two of the biggest things poise is used for are: running through a hit to land a backstab (and now crits and hornet got nerfed) and avoiding stunlock long enough to stun someone else with your hits (and now some of the biggest culprits like greatswords may have a harder time stunlocking altogether). I can't say for sure because things are really still just trickling in, but this could have the effect of forcing people to weigh between making the end/ring sacrifice and settling for less poise. 42 might become a new landmark if 56 stunlocks aren't as manageable, especially with toggle escape. I haven't heard anything on MLGS yet, though.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Vumsy » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:16 pm

MLGS got nerfed. Just like the rest.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Juli » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:27 pm

I don't think Claymores deserve a huge hit in their popularity. I think there might be some weird sensationalist, "claymore got nerfed its shit now" reaction from ignoramuses and scrubs. From my experience fighting against Clay users, you rarely get stunlocked. Like maybe ~15% of my losses vs. Clay users were because of a stunlock, and I don't play with 53 poise. If you go for a second swing and whiff, you get BS'd, and if you land it, it's only two guaranteed hits. Good clay users I fight won't even go for a third hit most of the time because they know that I can just escape and roll away at best. Worst case scenario I parry them. Usually they swing once then back away unless they KNOW they'll hit me, then they'll go for two swings and either back away or try to do something to catch me on my escape, like BS or delay R1.

So yeah, I don't think this nerf makes Clay a terrible weapon, and I think that people who enjoyed using it should keep using it, but a lot of them might overreact and stop using it. I dislike it because I don't think it was necessary, and the stunlock makes fighting vs. Clay more exciting.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Vumsy » Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:39 pm

^I Agree on that.

It was pretty unneccersary. They still have dead angles for mix-ups between the pokes though (I hope)
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby mmghouse » Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:31 am

Again, Saint, nice clarification. I played with MLGS and clay quite frequently. My playstyle almost never involved swinging twice in a row. Good players are rarely stunlocked. My observation was simply that, all things being equal, the inability to even go for a second hit makes the weapon slightly less wonderful and weakens a minor benefit of poise (landing that second hit into their poise to go for a third sometimes). On the other hand, it also weakens the ability to hit 53 poise at all, so...
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby DidoRumbus » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:04 am

Jman, great list. Here are a few more:

- Catarina leggings can be used as an alternative to catarina gauntlets + wolf. Exact same stats, and IMO they mesh better with many light armour combos. MoM / Dingy / Wanderer / Catarina is very good.
- Giant helm + wolf weighs less than a catarina piece, defences are slightly worse, but you can make up for that with Dingy / Wanderer / Maiden. Worth considering if you're anti-MoM.
- You mentioned Wolf + Anything with poise - I think Wolf + Eastern Gauntlets deserves special mention. It nets you 42 poise at only 1.5 points of weight (but with terrible defence).

Aside from looking cool, PTD armours are not great for optimized combos. The one thing that might stand out is gough's leggings (13 poise, 8 weight), which could be used in place of catarina if you have weight to burn.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Jman1988 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:20 pm

DidoRumbus wrote:Jman, great list. Here are a few more:

- Catarina leggings can be used as an alternative to catarina gauntlets + wolf. Exact same stats, and IMO they mesh better with many light armour combos. MoM / Dingy / Wanderer / Catarina is very good.
- Giant helm + wolf weighs less than a catarina piece, defences are slightly worse, but you can make up for that with Dingy / Wanderer / Maiden. Worth considering if you're anti-MoM.
- You mentioned Wolf + Anything with poise - I think Wolf + Eastern Gauntlets deserves special mention. It nets you 42 poise at only 1.5 points of weight (but with terrible defence).


-This is inferior to Catarina Gauntlets + Wolf, because the gauntlets allow you to get the Maiden Skirt, whereas the Leggings will just allow the Wanderer Manchette.
-I did mention this, but in my second post. I'm not putting it in the OP, because I'm only putting things that have a logical justification (even if barely) in the context of MoM.
-Eastern Gloves are horrible gloves that almost always perform terribly where people think there is actually a niche for Eastern Gloves. That said, this is one case where they are pretty good (and perhaps the only place where they are good. Seriously), since they allow you to equip Maiden Skirt, Dingy Robes, and MoM. They do deserve special mention, thanks for notifying me.

DidoRumbus wrote:Aside from looking cool, PTD armours are not great for optimized combos. The one thing that might stand out is gough's leggings (13 poise, 8 weight), which could be used in place of catarina if you have weight to burn.

Again, Catarina Gauntlets trump this from a pure efficiency standpoint, because Maiden Skirt > Wanderer Manchette.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Jman1988 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:50 pm

Added a 31+ poise table.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby mmghouse » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:46 pm

Jman1988 wrote:Eastern Gauntlets (with Wolf Ring): Who would have thought the shittiest gloves in the game could be part of such an amazing combo?


You know, early on I used to wear those on a BkGaxe build when people thought 55 poise was the breakpoint and I was still shying away from endurance over 40. Maybe if I had taken those off for a second I would have found out sooner that you don't need 55 to avoid hitstun from a clay/mlgs. Lol.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Jman1988 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:05 pm

@mmg Don't beat yourself up over that faux poise breakpoint, no one was able to catch it except for EWGF himself.

The problem with Eastern Gauntlets is that if you substitute so many individual pieces of armor with poise in the game with a different piece of armor with poise, and get 2+ poise for much less than a 1.5 weight increase, while not consuming your gloves slot. Examples include Black Iron Leggings -> Giant Leggings, Giant Leggings -> Stone Leggings, Stone Leggings -> Havel's Leggings, Black Iron Helm -> Giant Helm, Iron Bracelet -> Silver Gauntlets, Iron Leggings -> Knight Leggings, and oh god, my so so many more. And then when you factor in mixing and matching multiple pieces, well, yeah, Eastern is useless. It honestly needs to get a huge boost to armor rating, or a big cut to weight.

By the way, you've got to check out the link for a hilarious read. I had no idea that all the scrubs who used to always whine about "aesthetics > metagaming" in this message board migrated over to gamefags. One of them even questions my use of the word "optimized", on the technicality that these are the mathematically superior armor combos of the game...

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/606312-d ... 63919796#2

*edit* fixed link
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby mmghouse » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:44 pm

Jman, I have a question for you: might some of the new armor blow this list out of the water? Someone might know better than I whether any of the new armor is even possibly feasible, but even one or two efficient pieces could greatly rearrange things.

Or maybe they all suck.

Edit: I do recognize you mention this in passing in your first post, but my point is really just, I hope the less sharp readers don't forget to check back. :)
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Atlas » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:47 pm

Jman1988 wrote:31+ poise (for sustaining a 2HR1 katana/medium weapon hit)

Anything with Wolf Ring: Herp derp.

Havel's Gauntlets + HSW: This is the lightest armor combo that allows for 31+ poise.


Unless I'm mistaken, isn't Havel Gauntlets + Hollow Warrior's Waist cloth still >31 poise and lighter?
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby mmghouse » Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:53 pm

That's true. It's only 0.2 points lighter, but there might be one or two times when that tiny amount matters.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Jman1988 » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:21 am

mmghouse wrote:might some of the new armor blow this list out of the water?

Far from it. At worst, a few of the combos will require editing, though probably not removal. At best, there would be an additional combo or two. Another realistic but disappointing possibility is that no changes would need to be made whatsoever, because a lot of the combos involve efficient fundamentals like Havel's Set, Giant Set, and HSW (I counted five that don't including Wolf Ring alone). The new sets will find it exceedingly difficult to replace them, and a lot of the other pieces will also be difficult to replace, solely based on their compatibility with fundamentals.

I've got my eye on Hawkeye Gough's Set and the Stone Guardian Set though, to be honest. I'm just waiting for the numbers on their max upgraded (if they can be upgraded, even) to come in, so I can reliably replace/add/dismiss combos in the OP.

I'll be sure to notify the community when I've run the numbers on the new sets, even if none of the new pieces can make it onto the list. But make no mistake, people: This list is solid right now.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Jman1988 » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:36 am

Atlas wrote:
Jman1988 wrote:31+ poise (for sustaining a 2HR1 katana/medium weapon hit)

Anything with Wolf Ring: Herp derp.

Havel's Gauntlets + HSW: This is the lightest armor combo that allows for 31+ poise.


Unless I'm mistaken, isn't Havel Gauntlets + Hollow Warrior's Waist cloth still >31 poise and lighter?

That's a keen eye you got there, Atlas. I'll update my list. I'm happy about HWW being super efficient in some context too, because it looks sexy on female characters. :D I hope Havel's Armor doesn't cancel that out. :x

Come to think of it...
Jman1988 wrote:Black Iron Armor + HSW (with Wolf Ring): This is the lightest armor combo that will grant 76+ poise.

Jman1988 wrote:Gargoyle Helm + Havel's Gauntlets + HSW: This is the lightest armor combo (that doesn't use Wolf Ring) that reaches 41+ poise, thanks to combining the most efficient headpiece (aside from Havel's), leggings, and gloves.

Looks like I'll be doing some more updating.

Let Atlas and Dido show that this is a community project, not just my own. I just volunteered to manage it.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby SevansVII » Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:20 pm

The Lord's Blades Gauntlets can be utilized with Wolf Ring to get 41 poise without having those awful, awful Eastern Gauntlets. They give 3 poise, weigh 2.5 units, have much better defense than Eastern Gauntlets and look pretty sweet, to boot.

Worth the extra 1.0 weight unit if you ask me.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Jman1988 » Sat Sep 01, 2012 10:00 pm

I'll be sure to give them a closer look when info on their defense is more widely available, but the honest truth is that there's a good chance they won't make the list. The only thing that would get it on the list would be if it had ungodly defenses.

1.0 is a lot of weight to add solely for defense, let alone for 1 extra poise, even if that extra poise was needed. Do note that Eastern Gloves are actually more poise/weight efficient than LB Gauntlets. Not a lot of things are that poise/weight inefficient.

Nonetheless, it's got a couple of potential shots at the list.

Havel's Leggings + LB Gauntlets (unlikely, with Havel's Gauntlets + HWW on the list)
Stone Armor + LB Gauntlets (has a fighting chance against Giant Armor + HSW, since the former combo can be paired with Maiden Skirt. On the other hand, Giant Gauntlets + Giant Leggings can get Dingy Robes)
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby DidoRumbus » Sun Sep 02, 2012 6:03 pm

Jman1988 wrote:I'll be sure to give them a closer look when info on their defense is more widely available, but the honest truth is that there's a good chance they won't make the list. The only thing that would get it on the list would be if it had ungodly defenses.

I just added the upgraded defences of all new armours to the wikidot (also, confirmed weight and poise of each piece). Nothing stands out at first glance, but you might be able to find an obscure OP combo :)

SevansVII wrote:The Lord's Blades Gauntlets can be utilized with Wolf Ring to get 41 poise without having those awful, awful Eastern Gauntlets. They give 3 poise, weigh 2.5 units, have much better defense than Eastern Gauntlets and look pretty sweet, to boot.

Worth the extra 1.0 weight unit if you ask me.

Ciaran's gloves give you a 10-20 def boost in each def, and a nice bump to poison resist, in exchange for 1.3 weight. Not worth investing 4-5 END in a Wolf/FaP build, but if you are swapping weapons and find you have some free space, go for it.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby Crab Rangoon » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:20 pm

Jman1988 wrote:That's a keen eye you got there, Atlas. I'll update my list. I'm happy about HWW being super efficient in some context too, because it looks sexy on female characters.

I agree - the HSW on males looks kinda like a Roman thing, but the HWW on ladies reminds me of a slutty Halloween costume.
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Re: Optimized PTD armor combos

Postby SevansVII » Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:27 pm

SevansVII wrote:The Lord's Blades Gauntlets can be utilized with Wolf Ring to get 41 poise without having those awful, awful Eastern Gauntlets. They give 3 poise, weigh 2.5 units, have much better defense than Eastern Gauntlets and look pretty sweet, to boot.

Worth the extra 1.0 weight unit if you ask me.


DidoRumbus wrote:Ciaran's gloves give you a 10-20 def boost in each def, and a nice bump to poison resist, in exchange for 1.3 weight. Not worth investing 4-5 END in a Wolf/FaP build, but if you are swapping weapons and find you have some free space, go for it.


Yeah, I probably should have specified that I don't think it's worth putting extra points in endurance, but that if the weight is available, it's worth the swap.

I'm currently running with a Lifehunt build and I quite appreciate the extra bleed resist that these gloves give me while still allowing a fast roll.

On another note, has anybody crunched any numbers on Chester's threads? I'm curious as to how they perform on a weight/defense efficiency scale.
Last edited by SevansVII on Sun Sep 02, 2012 8:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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