Murakumo vs Claymore

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Murakumo vs Claymore

Postby Nioken » Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:41 pm

Build:

Vit: 40
Att: 10
End: 40
Str: 28
Dex: 40
Int: 32

1 handed damages:
Clay: 481 AR
Mura: 552 AR

2 handed damges:
Clay: 525 AR
Mura: 564

Murakumo Pros:
high damage
poise breaks/stunlocks
uncommon weapon/move set catches people off guard
very effective 1h and 2h move set
dead angles effectively

Murakumo Cons:
12 units, double the weight of clay, doesn't allow for as much def/poise
really slow both 1h and 2h
slowness causes inability to chase/fight turtles effectively

Clay Pros:
respectable damage
stunlocks on 2nd hit
effective 1h and 2h move set
2h moveset is quick
light weight allows for backup weapons (demon's spear FTW) and more def/poise
can dead angle

Clay Cons:
weaker than Murakumo
very stale weapon, everyone and their mother uses it
chasing isn't too much easier than it is with the Murakumo

I am really trying to love the kumo and want to keep this character using the kumo since I already have an elemental build that uses a chaos clay. I just can't find enough reasoning to use the kumo over the clay especially since it's windup is sooooooooooo long. It's legit like 0.2 seconds quicker than an ultra greatsword, which is pathetic considering it has half the range.

Convince me please.
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Re: Murakumo vs Claymore

Postby Aoineko13 » Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:53 pm

Do one, and then the other?

(btw, claymore does 525 AR with exactly 40/40. 2h with 28/40 does more, it would be the same as 42/40. That said, I believe the difference is 2 AR)
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Re: Murakumo vs Claymore

Postby Nioken » Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:51 am

.... I have both... and like I said, I already have a build that uses the clay.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Clay does 525 1 handed with 40/40 but that is a huge waste of stats considering strength gets the 1.5x bonus from 2 handing and 40 is where diminishing returns hit. 28/40 will never do as much, never mind more damage, than a 40/40 build. Buffed my CLay gets 839 1 handed and 882 2 handed which is far higher than any 40/40 will do.

Not asking for build advice as I know what I'm doing, but I'm really hoping for someone to convince me to love the Murakumo and not be just another Claymore user.
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Re: Murakumo vs Claymore

Postby Aoineko13 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 2:24 am

26 * 1.5 = 39
27 * 1.5 = 40.5 (rounding down to 40)
28 * 1.5 = 42

So while two handing the claymore with 28 str and 40 dex, you will have more AR then one handing with 40 str and 40 dex. So it will have more AR then 525. That's what I was saying. It's not a significant change, however. And I wouldn't go as far as to say 40 str and 40 dex is a huge stat waste, not if you want to use a clay one handed. You simply have to accept either no buff or a smaller one (15 int GMW w/ ivory cat) and a little less hp/end.

If you want to do well with the murakumo, the only way is to use it, a lot. All of the pro's and con's you mentioned are quite true, and I can only think of one more pro. If the swing is timed just right, you can hit an opponent behind you before they can backstab... I've had it happen to me. The r1 is actually two swings, one quick swing behind the head and then the forward slash.
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Re: Murakumo vs Claymore

Postby Thaumogenesis » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:33 pm

Go for the +15 Clay. It's abeauty. You can still make a Fire or Light Murakumo. Test some more and pick the one you feel more comfortable with. I really tried to love the Muro, but i don't wanna spend the time to get into it. Overall the regular attacks are not my cup of tea, though it has a nice jump-attack. Also 1h R2 is easily punishable.
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Re: Murakumo vs Claymore

Postby Javi » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:47 pm

The clay is just too damn versatile and the damage and speed are good, that makes it the most used weapon...like you said even your mother uses this. I had one but I trashed it because I dont like to be one more of the thousands.

With those stats give the pike a throw. It only will have 410 AR but its long and fast. When upgraded it is D/B.
Sunlight blade will do good as well, around 420 if I remember correctly.
Bastard too of course but its too close to clay.
Give the gargoyle axe a go as well. Crazy range and decent speed and damage.

All this with same setup and buff of course.

The murakumo can be really good if you know what you are doing, otherwise no. I have same stats as you with kumo but I just dont like it too much, though I still win most fights.
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Re: Murakumo vs Claymore

Postby Dragunov » Thu Jan 12, 2012 8:52 pm

The murakumo is very hard to use properly, you have to change grip, use almost all moveset and unlock all time to suceed. Most people seem to think thats the way to use it is two hand and mash R1, but claymore is the weapon for that :P
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Re: Murakumo vs Claymore

Postby bakaryu18 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:47 pm

I've had someone kick my ass with a Murakumo, well it was really close but he was a good fighter. this was in the forest, where sif is.
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Re: Murakumo vs Claymore

Postby Dasmir » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:53 pm

Murakumo can easy perma-stun without twohanding.

Also: Running R1 is a big pro for the murakumo.. and has B scaling.

I think the claymore is a little obsolete in a scaling build.. since you need a lot of str and dex to do some decent dmg... a guy with a flambrege or MSGS can reach easy 500+ ar with only spent points in dex or str :?
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Re: Murakumo vs Claymore

Postby Dragunov » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:14 pm

Dasmir wrote:Murakumo can easy perma-stun without twohanding.

Also: Running R1 is a big pro for the murakumo.. and has B scaling.

I think the claymore is a little obsolete in a scaling build.. since you need a lot of str and dex to do some decent dmg... a guy with a flambrege or MSGS can reach easy 500+ ar with only spent points in dex or str :?


If you put a claymore two handed with 27/40 points invested you'll have a nice 525 AR. For the murakumo is something around 550 so the scaling isnt as good because you need to invest 28 in STR to 1 hand. About the 1h stun im not so sure, sometimes people escape, but that can be delayed damage, toggle escape or people wearing lots of ugly armour. Still much better than claymore 1h stun, and you can easily put 7 swings if the opponent have enough hp.
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Re: Murakumo vs Claymore

Postby eklad » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:27 pm

^^^ I think the Mura has an A scaling at +15

IMO the Mura is close to the gaxe from the Demons souls (bear with me) except its most effective in the 1 hand, its a reactionary weapon, you really cant dictate the pace and you cant chase, while against lighter weapons, you could two-hand and try to stunlock (even then its dangerous, because of the slow wind up, anyone that doesnt have insta run on will roll backstab you), trying to go for the stun lock against anything like the clay will only end badly, since they are much faster and will be able to connect with their 2 hits before you do (obviously this depends on your and your opponents posie level, assumption here is that both of you have 77 poise)

The Mura requires a patient/turtle playstyle to be at its best, you spam any attack with this weapon and you will get backstabbed, and its limited moveset (I am not even going to mention the 2H WD r1 or the R2, very very situational), meaning you either have to create oppurtunites or capitalise on your opponents impatience or mistakes, its also effective as a bait and punish weapon, for example you could use the r2 from well out of range and roll backstab/parry/run bs the incoming attack.

Its most effective attacks IMO is 1h r1 and WD r1, the R1 can be used to create space, as long as its not spammed (you spam, you get poise backstabbed), you always want to hit your opponent when they are doing something (so that they dont have time to react when they see the wind up), eg if they have insta run on and strafing from side to side, is a good time to hit with the WD r1 (just make sure they are not moving foward - poise backstab), dont ever attack when your opponent just seems to be simply jogging in your range, they are setting up a roll backstab, and as with all weapons (especially Mura) hit with the tip, to avoid poise backstabs.
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Re: Murakumo vs Claymore

Postby revdjweb » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:06 pm

eklad wrote:^^^ I think the Mura has an A scaling at +15

it does but the wiki is out of date. murakumo now reaches a scaling at +14. so you can save that slab and see if you like it.
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