Quality Build Help

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Quality Build Help

Postby IakonaSD » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:03 pm

Hi Everybody,

OK how do I start off on the Dark Souls page, then wind up on the Demon's Souls forums? My question is for Dark Souls, and I'm looking for all you math wizards to please help me.

I want to create a SL 125 Quality Build with WoG and a healing spell (for co op). If I understand correctly, having the correct Str/Dex stats + specific weapons like a claymore +15 with resin, can create some of the highest damage in the game. I started with a cleric, and gave him a 28 faith for WoG, but there is no way to hit the Str 27 and Dex 44 for the damage multipliers, and I need to figure out where to shave off points. I am currently SL 73 and here are my stats:

Vit 30
Att 16
End 30
Str 16
Dex 14
Res 11
Int 10
Faith 28

I have 52 points left to spend on Vit, End, Str, & Dex. Any suggestions on my remaining point distribution?
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Re: Quality Build Help

Postby Keayed » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:29 pm

Was your starting resistance at 11, or did you add to it?
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Re: Quality Build Help

Postby chefchucko » Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:29 pm

http://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/

This site...this is what you want to use.

For 125 you can do
40
16
40
24
38 (or 36 since you have 2 wasted points in int)
11
8 (10)
30 (or 28, but 30 is better so you can use sunlight blade or darkmoon blade)

if you're going to do 28 faith, you should go to 30 for sunlight blade as a buff instead of resin.
you may also want to consider having a bastard sword or flamberge as a divine/occult back up for when the buff runs out...if you go occult you can trim points from str and dex and bring faith to 50 for a better buff and spells.
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Re: Quality Build Help

Postby IakonaSD » Thu Jan 30, 2014 4:00 am

Keayed my starting resistance is 11.

I did level my int by 2 points because there are places in the game that I just like to use pyro.

Chefchucko: Thank you for your help. That is similar to what I was thinking. I was thinking a 37 on End to shave a few more points possibly? I know that Str 27 and Dex 44 are the damage multiplier stat numbers, but I don't know where to find that information to understand it better. If I have the Str 24 for example, does the damage multiplier just go down a little to like 1.3? Or does the damage change from 1 to 1.5 when I hit the Str 27. I can gain the 3 extra points from End if needed. Also, thank you for the awesome website, that does the damage calulations.

I'm struggling with the 28 to 30 faith. I'm still trying to understand the damage of Resin vs Cleric Buff (at 30 faith). Gold Pine Resin, for example, adds 150 points electric damage. My claymore would do 257 dam. + stat bonus + resin. Compared to a cleric buff, how much more magic damage would that add to claymore +15? What is the formula to calculate weapon damage, in relation to stats, plus your talisman, plus cleric buff? Is there a page somewhere to explain this to me?
Last edited by IakonaSD on Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Quality Build Help

Postby CptCosmic » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:11 am

IakonaSD wrote:I did level my int by 2 points because there are places in the game that I just like to use pyro.

pyromancy does not scale with intelligence, what matter is the level of the flame. adding intelligence will only increase the punching damage from the flame

IakonaSD wrote:I know that Str 27 and Dex 44 are the damage multiplier stat numbers, but I don't know where to find that information to understand it better. If I have the Str 24 for example, does the damage multiplier just go down a little to like 1.3? Or does the damage change from 1 to 1.5 when I hit the Str 27. I can gain the 3 extra points from End if needed.

the bonus for two handing a weapon is that your strength gets multiplied by 1.5 this means your 27 will be worth 40,5 while holding a weapon in two hands. the reason to not go over 27 when you plan to twohand a weapon is because you receive heavy diminishing returns for each extra point over 40 Str and your STR is already at 40.5 while two handing.

IakonaSD wrote:I'm struggling with the 28 to 30 faith. I'm still trying to understand the damage of Resin vs Cleric Buff (at 30 faith). Gold Pine Resin, for example, adds 150 points electric damage. My claymore would do 257 dam. + stat bonus + resin. Compared to a cleric buff, how much more magic damage would that add to claymore +15? What is the formula to calculate weapon damage, in relation to stats, plus your talisman, plus cleric buff? Is there a page somewhere to explain this to me?

Sunlight Blade has a Modifier of 1.8. the best talisman for 30 faith would be the canvas talisman which would have a MagAdjust of 172 with 30 Faith due to its scaling. 1.8 * 172 => 309 lighting attack rating (twice as much as resin). it also does not mean that you get 150 extra damage from resin, having more than one damage type means that you have to bypass more than one defense rating seperately this means the higher the better. extra damage from resin is almost useless later in the game, the lighting defense rating will absorb most of it except when faceing some enemies weak to lighting thus if you plan buffing your weapon go for 30 faith.
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Re: Quality Build Help

Postby IakonaSD » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:46 am

Thank you CptCosmic, your Sunlight Blade explanation is very helpful. Doesn't killing Dark Sun Gwyndolyn cause me to have 'permanent' sin? Will I forever be hunted by Darkmoon cov? Can I enter Darkmoon Cov in NG+ if I have killed her?

The main idea of the toon was to be a Quality Build. I don't seem to be typing in the right word, in the search box, to find an explanation of how my Str and Dex affect my damage rating with my intended claymore. I've been typing things like quality build and weapon's damage calculator. What is the formula on how my Str and Dex affect my weapon. [Thank you Chefchucko for the website, which calculates the damage, I'm also trying to understand the math of how it is working]

Would a Str 24, Dex 36, Faith 30, Claymore +15 [453], Canvass Talisman [Adj. 208]
Or like Str 16, Dex 14, Faith 50, claymore +15 [373], Dark moon talisman [Adj. 226] be better. Is the magic adjust a multiplier. Some where in the forums, they were talking about how the quality builds were outperform the other classes. They were also saying that is also assuming certain weapons, like the claymore.

Yes, I did put 2 points into Int. I need to have a Int 10 to use pyro. Clerics have an Int 8 starting, so I needed the 2 extra points in order to use my glove.
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Re: Quality Build Help

Postby CptCosmic » Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:14 am

IakonaSD wrote:Thank you CptCosmic, your Sunlight Blade explanation is very helpful. Doesn't killing Dark Sun Gwyndolyn cause me to have 'permanent' sin? Will I forever be hunted by Darkmoon cov? Can I enter Darkmoon Cov in NG+ if I have killed her?

you will have a "fresh" start at NG+ and you will be able to join again

IakonaSD wrote:I don't seem to be typing in the right word, in the search box, to find an explanation of how my Str and Dex affect my damage rating with my intended claymore

each weapon show letters in their stats indicating the scaling, from S to E or -. S is the best scaling, E is worst and - means it does not scale with that stat. weapons with good scaling in one stat usually have bad scaling in another and lower base damage. claymore has C (middle ground) in both STR & DEX and decent base damage, that is why it is a good quality weapon.

IakonaSD wrote:Some where in the forums, they were talking about how the quality builds were outperform the other classes

the reason why quality builds are popular is the sheer amount of weapons you can use and the high physical damage of those weapons without buffs. buffs can be a liability when it runs out or when you do not have any casts left. quality builds can also use the pyroflame well because they usually will have 40 DEX which means better cast time.

IakonaSD wrote:Would a Str 24, Dex 36, Faith 30, Claymore +15 [453], Canvass Talisman [Adj. 208]
Or like Str 16, Dex 14, Faith 50, claymore +15 [373], Dark moon talisman [Adj. 226] be better.

why 24 STR? is there any weapon you are aiming for? I would go 20 STR and 40 DEX, 40 DEX gives you a better cast time
for pyromancies (if you are planning to use them)

20 STR, 40 DEX and 30 faith would give you good physical damage with a quality weapon, esp. two handed. a +15 claymore has 488 physical AR with those stats and you can add 309 lighting AR to that with sunlight blade or 361 magical AR with darkmoon blade.

50 faith would give you a strong weapon buff & strong Wrath of the Gods spell in PVP. In PVE you can use a divine weapon for most enemies with 50 faith though and use the weapon buff with a +15 weapon for bosses but overall you will deal less damage without your buff, even if it is divine. darkmoon talisman & Sunlight blade with 50 faith adds 406 lighting AR, darkmoon blade adds 474 magical AR.

I would go with 20 STR, 40 DEX and 30 faith, this build is less forgiving and you deal consistent damage even without a weapon buff, plus you have the advantage of having higher cast time with pyromancies.

IakonaSD wrote:Yes, I did put 2 points into Int. I need to have a Int 10 to use pyro. Clerics have an Int 8 starting, so I needed the 2 extra points in order to use my glove.

does the glove has any INT requirement? I havent played for months but from my memory it does not require any INT
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Re: Quality Build Help

Postby Slim Cini » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:17 am

Applying weapon buffs to Q weapons is not always that great an idea. They're (generally) slower to hit someone with than a dex weapon so you'll get less 'buffed' hits on an opponent. Buffs are best used on dex builds. But it's still possible to just about squeeze them in:

http://mmdks.com/5hw0

No shield but hey... dodge instead ;)
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Re: Quality Build Help

Postby CptCosmic » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:34 am

Slim Cini wrote:Applying weapon buffs to Q weapons is not always that great an idea. They're (generally) slower to hit someone with than a dex weapon so you'll get less 'buffed' hits on an opponent. Buffs are best used on dex builds. But it's still possible to just about squeeze them in:

http://mmdks.com/5hw0

No shield but hey... dodge instead ;)

regarding your suggested build, if poise is what you are after, wouldnt the wolf ring with some lighter armor be better? first it would look better than the giant mom and second stamina regeneration rate is better with less heavy armor
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Re: Quality Build Help

Postby Slim Cini » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:33 am

CptCosmic wrote:regarding your suggested build, if poise is what you are after, wouldnt the wolf ring with some lighter armor be better? first it would look better than the giant mom and second stamina regeneration rate is better with less heavy armor


Well that's a simple fix if that's what you want to do. That's just personal preference. I'm not really fussed either way as I rarely play anymore and when I do I just go for LOLs in the forest with obscenely unbalanced builds.
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Re: Quality Build Help

Postby IakonaSD » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:22 pm

Thank you Slim Cini for your posting. That was very close to what I was thinking, except originally I was thinking 28 faith for WoG, and resin for claymore, but as Cptcosmic pointed out, the resin is weak in NG+. I did put 2 point in Int, because I do like pyro. It's food for thought that my idea my not be the best idea, and maybe I need to rethink my plan.

I've done the standard Vit 50, End 40, Str 16ish, Dex 14ish, Faith 50 build, and I just get trounced! When vaded, I tend to naturally gravitate to WoG (for knockback) and claymore. Although I do have high speed internet, PvP is always the same. I'm slower than a tortoise on Valium and my opponent is faster than a jack rabbit on crack! I'm invaded, he runs around me, backstab/kills me, rinse, and repeat. I generally have about a 3 second survival rate after being invaded. Even when I'm backing away from them, they just 'pop' behind me and kill me.

I don't remember having this problem in Demon's Souls and can't figure out the difference. Things seemed more balanced in that game, and I didn't die every 3 seconds. So is this a Dex issue?
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