Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Oroboro » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:01 pm

Invellous wrote:Hello, I have recently been playing a Darkmoon Blade Dex/Faith character, which thus far has been a lot of fun. However I was wondering if it was really worth my time going passed SL 125 to raise my Faith to 50 instead of leaving it at 30 and boosting Vitality to 50. I do not spam Wrath of Gods; often I only use it when someone is around a corner trying to heal, or when I have multiple players trying to surround me. I also do not equip any spell boosting items. I generally run the gear in the following build below.

https://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/

Personally I feel like I would have been better off taking Vitality to 50 instead of taking Faith to 50. There have been fights where the extra 210 HP would have helped me more in close fights. I was curious if those 20 points spent had a significant effect on my Darkmoon Blade and Sunlight Blade miracles?


This is a huge question that I had in making my dexterity build. You gain ALOT of damage but lose ALOT of hp. You gain 500 HP from going to 30 to 50 VIT with Ring of FaP. You gain about 100 damage per swing with DMB+3 on a full giant armor + mother mask opponent from 30 to 50 faith. You have to really decide whats more important to you, survivability or the damages. IMO the between point 40 vit and 40 faith isn't worth it. I thought that 1300 was a little too low for the current one hit backstab hornet ring buffs everywhere 1000k damage backstab meta so you really want to have more HP to be able to outplay your opponents, on the other hand if you are careful the 50 faith build can be even more deadly because if you play carefully you can completely outrade your opponents and usually come out on top, but one mistake and your dead. It's up to you, I just recently changed back to the 50 VIT version so we'll see how it turns out. I think it's definately better to have that 500 hp overall because that may be 2-3 more hits until you die.

mmghouse wrote:Looking good.

I have a couple of questions about Str: (1) 18 dex? Now that BKGaxe got a nerf, I wonder whether this is worth it. (2) What do you do with that much end, exactly? 61 poise? 76? I'd think 61 might not be a bad idea, but 76 seems unnecessary. I'm curious what armor loadout you had in mind...At any rate, sadly, I tend to believe that, pound-for-pound, large club/great club are the only str weapons worth the time, maybe MLGS although it's outclassed by a quality build...

I also wanted to mention that I liked OBGS for a little while, and the AoE is fun (but predictable), but the weapon is mid-tier at best with its stubbiness and slowness. I'd rather go with MLGS any day, or just plain old Clay. Not that you shouldn't make builds around it, but I think a 16/14...50 faith build with divine clay/bss/uchi/zweihander outperforms it. (Clay + BSS is a nice setup).

In line with my questions about the endurance, I haven't been able to convince myself that post-DWGR nerf anything better than wolf+dingy/knight/hsw is worth it if I have to go much over 40. What makes you think differently? I guess 61 is nice, especially with the 60 poise BF and the 2h Gold-tracer prevalence, but is there something else to your view? I guess since we didn't see the armor loadouts, I am just wondering.


1. The BKGA is still a great weapon if your good with it, even after the nerf, but it's up to you if you want to use that dex elsewhere. I keep it because I love the weapon.
2. The end is like I said in the description to get some poise with these heavy weapons because they take so much equip burden. Since the new patch made it much harder to obtain poise I feel like 50 VIT is enough and the rest in END would help much more. Again you can change this depending on your setup. Personally I min-max these builds to a pinpoint but the armor I wear for looks. I usually rock elites knight with some havel gauntlets and wanderer boots. Obviously if you didn't care about looks any of the recommended armor combos on the item forums with your weapon of choice is definitely the best (As i'm sure you already know). And yeah the faith build doesn't sacrifice much of anything to be able to use the obsidian greatsword and although it is slow and clunky it hits like a truck with its pure physical AR. I have another obsidian greatsword build at the bottom I've added earlier today that I think is ridiculous.
Again most of the time when I hit the soft cap of VIT at 50 I feel like you could better spend points in END so you can stack poise/more physical defense. If you have a specific setup you'd like to use you can edit the build so that you have the minimum amount of end with your chosen weapon and etc but there are so many weapons to chose from in each build I wanted to leave it open for people to decide their loadouts/weapons with optimized builds.

Ookami9 wrote:Thanks for sharing your builds, just a few questions:

1) With your that met easily met 16 strength and 22 dexterity, I noticed that silver knight weapons were omitted from the suggested weapons. Was there any particular reason for that?

2) For your Dragon Slayer Spear build, maybe you should redistribute points from vitality and strength to increase dexterity to at least 30. To negate any nicks/cuts/burns/bruises, replinishment would be good miracle to attune while controlling space/zoning. That health regen has saved me so many times...

3) Are opponents less cautious approaching a DMB Obsidian great sword then DMB falchion?


1. Yeah I just forgot them. There are other weapons I forgot in some of the suggestions as well but I tried to get them all. I'll double check, thanks for noticing.

2. Replinishment is definately a solid miracle, I'll add it to the list. I checked on that Str into Dex and your correct, it does do more damage so I just put str at the minimum of 24 and upped dex to 28. Taking points out of vitality to add into dex/faith for more damage isn't worth it IMO for a few reasons. I feel that being a spear user you don't really care TOO much about damage, and that vitality should be put first before everything. Also the dragonslayer spear has split damage so the scaling on it, even being B isn't that big of an increase. So I put as many points into damage that I have free and focus the rest in VIT. You can change the build for slightly more damage but you lose out on tons of survivability and IMO it's just not worth it.

3. Barely anyone is cautious at all, with or without buffs. Only smart players (1%) will actually turtle up and try to dodge your buff for a minute, and even then you can probably get some free hits in while they are dodging that will give you a huge advantage.

I think that's it, thanks for all the help guys and if you have any more suggestions for builds or just critique let me know.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Ookami9 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 2:58 am

I really like your Artorias build, have you ever considered running with 27 strength/38 dexterity for that particular toon?
You would only be missing out on roughly 7 points of damage for both the Abyss Sword and the Cursed Greatsword of Artorias. Those 2 soul levels that can be allocated to 1 attunement slot. I guess either Black Flame/Great Combustion or self buffs like Replinshment/Power Within depending on your playstyle.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Oroboro » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:04 pm

Ookami9 wrote:I really like your Artorias build, have you ever considered running with 27 strength/38 dexterity for that particular toon?
You would only be missing out on roughly 7 points of damage for both the Abyss Sword and the Cursed Greatsword of Artorias. Those 2 soul levels that can be allocated to 1 attunement slot. I guess either Black Flame/Great Combustion or self buffs like Replinshment/Power Within depending on your playstyle.


Yeah you could do that. On the Artorias build I don't really like to use spells, that's why I didn't take any attunement slots but yeah you do have a good point. Power within would make sense for roleplaying as well because he does have that awesome self buff he casts. I'll definitely consider changing it, but you do lose the damage and I'd rather sacrifice more VIT if I had to because the scaling on the abyss sword is what makes it better than the rest.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Invellous » Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:48 pm

Oroboro wrote:This is a huge question that I had in making my dexterity build. You gain ALOT of damage but lose ALOT of hp. You gain 500 HP from going to 30 to 50 VIT with Ring of FaP. You gain about 100 damage per swing with DMB+3 on a full giant armor + mother mask opponent from 30 to 50 faith. You have to really decide whats more important to you, survivability or the damages. IMO the between point 40 vit and 40 faith isn't worth it. I thought that 1300 was a little too low for the current one hit backstab hornet ring buffs everywhere 1000k damage backstab meta so you really want to have more HP to be able to outplay your opponents, on the other hand if you are careful the 50 faith build can be even more deadly because if you play carefully you can completely outrade your opponents and usually come out on top, but one mistake and your dead. It's up to you, I just recently changed back to the 50 VIT version so we'll see how it turns out. I think it's definately better to have that 500 hp overall because that may be 2-3 more hits until you die.




Thank you for the advice. Currently leveling another Dex/Faith Character, and going to go for 40 Dexterity /30 Faith with the 50 Vitality. Do you increase Strength to 14 to use the Katanas, or leave at it 12, or base to increase Attunement to 16 for your DMB Dex/Faith characters? According to the Dark Souls Character Planner you can not get both 16 Attunement and 14 Strength without going passed SL. 125 with the two suggested starting classes.

I would also like to compliment you on your Thread. The builds seem very solid and the way you have everything formatted it very clean.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Oroboro » Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:55 pm

Invellous wrote:
Oroboro wrote:This is a huge question that I had in making my dexterity build. You gain ALOT of damage but lose ALOT of hp. You gain 500 HP from going to 30 to 50 VIT with Ring of FaP. You gain about 100 damage per swing with DMB+3 on a full giant armor + mother mask opponent from 30 to 50 faith. You have to really decide whats more important to you, survivability or the damages. IMO the between point 40 vit and 40 faith isn't worth it. I thought that 1300 was a little too low for the current one hit backstab hornet ring buffs everywhere 1000k damage backstab meta so you really want to have more HP to be able to outplay your opponents, on the other hand if you are careful the 50 faith build can be even more deadly because if you play carefully you can completely outrade your opponents and usually come out on top, but one mistake and your dead. It's up to you, I just recently changed back to the 50 VIT version so we'll see how it turns out. I think it's definately better to have that 500 hp overall because that may be 2-3 more hits until you die.




Thank you for the advice. Currently leveling another Dex/Faith Character, and going to go for 40 Dexterity /30 Faith with the 50 Vitality. Do you increase Strength to 14 to use the Katanas, or leave at it 12, or base to increase Attunement to 16 for your DMB Dex/Faith characters? According to the Dark Souls Character Planner you can not get both 16 Attunement and 14 Strength without going passed SL. 125 with the two suggested starting classes.

I would also like to compliment you on your Thread. The builds seem very solid and the way you have everything formatted it very clean.


Yeah if you want to used buff katanas you'd be best to sacrifice attunement down to 12 for 2 slots with dmb and wog. I honestly don't use those weapons 1h with that build so i didn't go for the extra str, i much prefer the attunement slots and when i use katanas i prefer using unbuffed builds, but again that is just preference. Thanks alot though, I put ALOT ALOT ALOT of time into it. Like two days straight time. I'm still looking to improve/add some builds because there are some strange builds I haven't yet tried yet.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Invellous » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:18 pm

Oroboro wrote:Yeah if you want to used buff katanas you'd be best to sacrifice attunement down to 12 for 2 slots with dmb and wog. I honestly don't use those weapons 1h with that build so i didn't go for the extra str, i much prefer the attunement slots and when i use katanas i prefer using unbuffed builds, but again that is just preference. Thanks alot though, I put ALOT ALOT ALOT of time into it. Like two days straight time. I'm still looking to improve/add some builds because there are some strange builds I haven't yet tried yet.


On my 40 Dex / 50 Faith character I rarely used the katanas after I discovered weapons like the Balder Side Sword. The katanas were great for npcs and bosses, but against players I found their movesets to be lacking. At one point I was using a +10 Balder Side Sword over a +15 Uchigatana because I liked it's wide horizontal slash, which was great for hitting players that were strafing.

Thinking of running the following character. I may drop two points from Strength and drop them into Attunement for the extra spell slot.

https://mugenmonkey.com/darksouls/?b=Y2xlcmljLDUwLDE0LDQwLDE0LDQwLDExLDgsMzAsMCw0OCw0OCw0NSw0OCwyMiwzMSwxNTMsMTQsMTI1LDQwLG5vcm1hbCxub3JtYWwsbm9ybWFsLG5vcm1hbCwwLDYxLDY2LDQ2LDAsMCwwLDAsMCwwLDAsMCwwLDMsd29vZGVuLHdvb2Rlbix3b29kZW4sd29vZGVuLDE=
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Oroboro » Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:42 pm

Added a new build to the list, comments and critique are always appreciated!

~Seppuku~
Description: A dragon form build that focuses on doing maximum damage while being able to take absolutely none. Uses Darkmoon Blade +3, Power Within, Red Tearstone Ring, and Dragon Torso Stone for ungodly amounts of damage. The sorcerer is the only option for this build because it has the least vitality. The reason we want this is because we are using the Sanctus which gives a flat 1 hp per second and using Power Within which drains 1% of your total HP per second. The Sorcerer starts with 531 vitality and 1% of 531 is 5.31 so with the Sanctus it gets reduced to 4.31 which means the Sanctus helps negate the HP loss by 20% which is pretty nice. Doesn't change the fact that this build is on a timer and able to be killed in literally one hit. High risk high reward build. You have exactly 123 seconds to kill your opponent before power within kills you. Plenty of time to fight, as long as you don't get hit. Good luck.
Starting Class: Sorcerer
-STATS-
ATT: 16
END: 40
STR: 27
DEX: 40
FAI: 50
-Weapons
Almost any buffable weapon +15 / Darkmoon Talisman / Sanctus +15
-Spells
Power Within / Darkmoon Blade / Sunlight Blade / Wrath of God / Black Flame
-Equipment
Dragon Body Stone / Red Tearstone Ring / Dark Wood Grain Ring

Really amazing build, it's been bone before I know, but I'm not sure to this extent. I'm making this next.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby PsYk1K » Mon Jan 21, 2013 4:39 am

Thought abotu using Claymore on faith build or is Obsidian Greatsword just better? I remember claymore +15 and zwei being 2 of the best weapons to have according to people like egwf. Would you say HP regen is stupid nowadays or is it still viable. I notice you dont ever use replenishment.

If I wanna make faith dex... did I make a mistake for having my STR at 16? is that bad>?
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Oroboro » Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:14 pm

PsYk1K wrote:Thought abotu using Claymore on faith build or is Obsidian Greatsword just better? I remember claymore +15 and zwei being 2 of the best weapons to have according to people like egwf. Would you say HP regen is stupid nowadays or is it still viable. I notice you dont ever use replenishment.

If I wanna make faith dex... did I make a mistake for having my STR at 16? is that bad>?


Str at 16 is never bad on any build, alot of things use it like claymores, uchis, and etc. Obsidian greatsword would do much more damage on my faith build because the claymore gets no scaling whereas the obsidian greatsword doesn't need scaling to do damage. The only down-side is the low range. Zwei is dangerous to use in PvP unless you are very good with dead angling it. Most of the time you will get roll bs'd or parried.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby PsYk1K » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:27 am

I saw a build wth somene using high faith and dex and vit... they were basically pure caster.... 45 dex for faster casting and high faith... combod kicks.. WOG... black flame constantly and only used his stam to run away and backstab with bandit dagger. apparently he invested almost no points into endurance. Would you say faith is the best stat because of WOG? Seems like his best miracle all in all but it it worth going over a vit gouged dex version with pyromancies?

what about something like this.

45 vit
23 att
40 end
16 str
16 dex
50 faith

You have a little less health obviously but you have 6 att slots. This opens up a lot of decent diversity. Faith builds having the room to incorporate great fireball or fire surge. Using multiple magic barriers or WoGs while still carrying a heal and black flame... stuf like that. Ever think of Power within with regen? Also what rings to wear? Do you like the synergy ring at all? Makes regen better and that's cool with double buff.you could always buff a claymore with DMB. It doesn;t do as much damage way easier to hit with than the obsidian GS and has some combos. How often do people just run away from the buffed obsidian GS and wait out the buff. It wuld be a lot more chalenging to rn away from a claymore no?

Above all else is the crowd better for lvl 100 arena pvp? I know it's matchmaking so it's prolly more consistent but I like the buold diversity of 125. you could always buff a claymore with DMB. It doesn;t do as much damage way easier to hit with than the obsidian GS and has some combos
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Oroboro » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:13 pm

PsYk1K wrote:I saw a build wth somene using high faith and dex and vit... they were basically pure caster.... 45 dex for faster casting and high faith... combod kicks.. WOG... black flame constantly and only used his stam to run away and backstab with bandit dagger. apparently he invested almost no points into endurance. Would you say faith is the best stat because of WOG? Seems like his best miracle all in all but it it worth going over a vit gouged dex version with pyromancies?

what about something like this.

45 vit
23 att
40 end
16 str
16 dex
50 faith

You have a little less health obviously but you have 6 att slots. This opens up a lot of decent diversity. Faith builds having the room to incorporate great fireball or fire surge. Using multiple magic barriers or WoGs while still carrying a heal and black flame... stuf like that. Ever think of Power within with regen? Also what rings to wear? Do you like the synergy ring at all? Makes regen better and that's cool with double buff.you could always buff a claymore with DMB. It doesn;t do as much damage way easier to hit with than the obsidian GS and has some combos. How often do people just run away from the buffed obsidian GS and wait out the buff. It wuld be a lot more chalenging to rn away from a claymore no?

Above all else is the crowd better for lvl 100 arena pvp? I know it's matchmaking so it's prolly more consistent but I like the buold diversity of 125. you could always buff a claymore with DMB. It doesn;t do as much damage way easier to hit with than the obsidian GS and has some combos


WoG is definitely a solid miracle yes and the strongest buffs are also in faiths so if your planning on buffing or just want WoG it's always a good option but I don't know about the best, every stat has it's ups and downs.

With that build you could only use divine weapons which literally do almost no damage.Regen is absolute crap in this game, period. Only useful for a hyper build with 10 VIT. I almost always run the same setup on all of my builds, havel's ring and fap ring. People don't run away from buffs unless they are actually smart. So like 3% of the time people will just turn around and run away. That's why I keep two buffs on me lol. Just buff again right when they get back and they end up jumping off a cliff. I wouldn't say that the claymore is better than the obsidian but it certainly has less range and I like the pokes on the claymore much better but the obsidian is stronger and the running r1 r1 r2 combo on it is devastating if the r2 hits.

I hate sl100 PvP in general. Arena is kind-of a joke. If you get a winning streak and a laggy player comes in and teleport kills you over and over its gg. You might like it, but it's certainly not for me. All the matches I've had with my build I usually insta-gib the other player for 3 minutes while they try to crystal out, and then they just disconnect lol.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby PsYk1K » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:38 pm

Does your faith build have anything over your dex dmb build you think? is there anything the faith build can do that the dmb build simply cant just do better?? People seem to think Obb GS is a terribad weapon for pvp. Is it bad and really fun and cool? I wanna be competitive here sorry fror all the questions
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Oroboro » Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:19 am

PsYk1K wrote:Does your faith build have anything over your dex dmb build you think? is there anything the faith build can do that the dmb build simply cant just do better?? People seem to think Obb GS is a terribad weapon for pvp. Is it bad and really fun and cool? I wanna be competitive here sorry fror all the questions


Well yeah dex dmb weapons hit harder and with the faith build you don't have that many really good options. Obb GS is amazing for PvP, whoever said that is bad and they should feel bad. 480 pure physical AR for literally 0 stat investment is NOT bad. The range may be a little smaller than other claymores but it still does tons of damage if you combo. Combined with DMB +3 with 50 faith you can outright combo people to death, especially if the R2 hits.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby PsYk1K » Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:40 am

Do you ever not use a falchion? Is there ever a time that you need to use a more poke type weapon like bss/estoc or maybe even a claymore? How bout the bandit's dagger or maybe shotel for breaking guards. Do you ever use uchi/iato. what other weapons do you regularly use and why? I imagine falchion isn't the best against everyone (people who know how to dweal with it) or is it really that good? Would you you enter a tourny with this build? How do you deal with people that outlast your buffs? Or do they ever? What do you do against people using big scary weapons ( obsidian dmb ). I'm really trying to decide whether to go dex dmb or pure faith. The weapon choices are clearly better and in your opinion do these weapons made available to you outcalss the oss? whats the difference between painting guardian sword and falchion... sn't losing kick bad? isnt it great to combo with?

TheOCCULT weapons deal as much damage as at least an elemental weapon for sure with 50 faith and can be a claymore or estoc with A scaling!! Not to mention that you have a great weapon without needing any buffs, or is the damage laughable when compared to dex scaling weapons?.... you could also buff any+15 weapon like a claymore +15 and have it be strong. I personally think you should look into more attunement slots.. correct me if I'm wrong. But especially on a faith build where you want both your buffs... you want wog.... you want blackflame and you certainly want emit force or some other good aoe spell.. and you almost ALWAYS want greater magic barrier... again correct me if im wrong. Am I overrating things like emit force and GMB and the damage on a 50 faith wog? Doesnt GMB that let you basically run through magic like it's nothing? I feel like it would be easy enough to auto aim or is it really easy to dodge things like that and greater fireball???

What weapon should I invest in first? This is my first playthrough and don't have much. Whats a good weapon to build first? I have the lightning spear from anor londo. should i upgrade that? make a different elemental weapon? or start upping something to +15. If so falchion or uchi? I noticed you say things that counter falchion... do the same things counter uchi? if so whats a ood weapon to counter back with.

What armor should I use? is it worth using +5 giants set with havel's ring?? I hear it's the best armor unless it reduces your mobility and it's not worth it. People run it with flip ring. Or would you want to get 76 poise in another way... I'm assuming having 76 poise is absolutely key in any serious pvp but again crrect me if im wrong

Lastly thanks immensely for taking the time to sit here and answer my questions> i love theorycrafting and you keep whacky ideas in check
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Oroboro » Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:07 pm

PsYk1K wrote:Do you ever not use a falchion? Is there ever a time that you need to use a more poke type weapon like bss/estoc or maybe even a claymore? How bout the bandit's dagger or maybe shotel for breaking guards. Do you ever use uchi/iato. what other weapons do you regularly use and why? I imagine falchion isn't the best against everyone (people who know how to dweal with it) or is it really that good? Would you you enter a tourny with this build? How do you deal with people that outlast your buffs? Or do they ever? What do you do against people using big scary weapons ( obsidian dmb ). I'm really trying to decide whether to go dex dmb or pure faith. The weapon choices are clearly better and in your opinion do these weapons made available to you outcalss the oss? whats the difference between painting guardian sword and falchion... sn't losing kick bad? isnt it great to combo with?

TheOCCULT weapons deal as much damage as at least an elemental weapon for sure with 50 faith and can be a claymore or estoc with A scaling!! Not to mention that you have a great weapon without needing any buffs, or is the damage laughable when compared to dex scaling weapons?.... you could also buff any+15 weapon like a claymore +15 and have it be strong. I personally think you should look into more attunement slots.. correct me if I'm wrong. But especially on a faith build where you want both your buffs... you want wog.... you want blackflame and you certainly want emit force or some other good aoe spell.. and you almost ALWAYS want greater magic barrier... again correct me if im wrong. Am I overrating things like emit force and GMB and the damage on a 50 faith wog? Doesnt GMB that let you basically run through magic like it's nothing? I feel like it would be easy enough to auto aim or is it really easy to dodge things like that and greater fireball???

What weapon should I invest in first? This is my first playthrough and don't have much. Whats a good weapon to build first? I have the lightning spear from anor londo. should i upgrade that? make a different elemental weapon? or start upping something to +15. If so falchion or uchi? I noticed you say things that counter falchion... do the same things counter uchi? if so whats a ood weapon to counter back with.

What armor should I use? is it worth using +5 giants set with havel's ring?? I hear it's the best armor unless it reduces your mobility and it's not worth it. People run it with flip ring. Or would you want to get 76 poise in another way... I'm assuming having 76 poise is absolutely key in any serious pvp but again crrect me if im wrong

Lastly thanks immensely for taking the time to sit here and answer my questions> i love theorycrafting and you keep whacky ideas in check


Like I said, if I want to win, I'll use a falchion. I've tried every other weapon in the game and the falchion is just too awesome. When people stop fishing for backstabs and literally running into my insta-kill combos I'll stop using the falchion, so probably never. I hate poke weapons and I actually love the bandits dagger. Not for breaking guards though, most people just roll away. Shotel is amazing though just because of the R2 but you lose alot of range when you use it over the falchion which is huge since it's already a nightmare fighting good katana users that just poke you to death. Falchion honestly wins me 99% of all my invasions (duels,gankers,anything) since if I get the buff off it's over. No one ever is smart enough to dodge it for a minute so they all just die. I've won several tournaments with that build so yeah. People with zweis or murakumos I usually just switch out to my shield and setup parry them. If they are smart I will stack poise and out-trade them. You have to remember nothing can out-trade the falchion. I don't recommend using the faith build unless you plan on using DMB oby gs or the cresent axe since DEX weapons even without the buff are stronger than occult. Losing kick is really bad but you really don't need it when you kill everyone faster with your normal r1 combo. If someone even thinks they can trade with you they are dead. With the PGS you lose so much range you might as well use a dagger. The thing that makes the falchion so good is the range it has to be able to out zone or trade with weapons like the chaos blade.

Emit force is useless when you have WoG IMO, any competent player will just roll through it. GMB is good so you can hard counter DMB and INT Dark Magic builds. 16 attunement is plenty for me. I usually run DMB/SLB/WoGx2 but you could run GMB instead of the extra WoG and you would have everything you need. Again if you really want more casts you can get them, but I don't use miracles that often and usually if I'm dueling I only need one buff so it's no big deal.

Elemental weapons have been nerfed to crap in recent patches and I really can't recommend using any of them. Just make a +15 of your preferred weapon and go to town. Good spear users counter everything, that's all you need to know lol. I don't honestly know all the katana counters since I rarely use them.

For armor if you want to min-max look on the armor thread on these forums for the best combinations for poise/defense. I use what I want because I like to keep style points while killing people. Honestly giants+mothers is the best but most of the time there is no way you will be able to fastroll with it anymore since the DWGR nerf. You definitely don't need 76 poise if you know how to handle big weapons. Zwei's and murakumo's are free kills most of the time, just setup parry like I said and they are dead. Most of the time they are either fat-rolling or have 0 poise because of the big weapon so you have to pay attention to play against that. I always shoot for 56 poise because of the running r1 on claymore attacks can stunlock you and the mlgs combo can do more than half your health if the last hit lands.

Thanks alot and if you have any more questions feel free to ask.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby PsYk1K » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:39 pm

So Spear users counter everything? does that mean theyre the best weapons? Or is it just an uphill battle and you believe the falchion is the best? Do you think you dueling yourself one with a spear one with a falchion which would win. Is it the best or are you the best with it? Winged spear..... bandit's dagger.. Falchion are the 3 weapons I plan to use... unless spears are simply terrible for this build. I plan to use. How do you play against these people that counter you? You say you beat them all the time... doesnt sound like a counter to me. Also what rings? RoFaP? and what else? Havel's? You say losing kick is really bad... what could kick help you do? And clearly you make due without it.... so it mustnt be that important or the falchion just is too good
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Oroboro » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:01 pm

PsYk1K wrote:So Spear users counter everything? does that mean theyre the best weapons? Or is it just an uphill battle and you believe the falchion is the best? Do you think you dueling yourself one with a spear one with a falchion which would win. Is it the best or are you the best with it? Winged spear..... bandit's dagger.. Falchion are the 3 weapons I plan to use... unless spears are simply terrible for this build. I plan to use. How do you play against these people that counter you? You say you beat them all the time... doesnt sound like a counter to me. Also what rings? RoFaP? and what else? Havel's? You say losing kick is really bad... what could kick help you do? And clearly you make due without it.... so it mustnt be that important or the falchion just is too good


Spears are very good in the right hands. Along with every other weapon in the game. There is no "best" weapon in the game since all weapons have counters, but good spear users are absolute nightmares. FaP and Havels, or Havels and Wolf depending on your equip load. You can kick into some r1's like the katana's or a great combustion/black flame for a guaranteed hit with 45 dex which is very powerful. And again you can get good with any weapon in the game and destroy people, it's all dependent on the user.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Tsmp » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:43 pm

Oroboro wrote:Str at 16 is never bad on any build, alot of things use it like claymores, uchis, and etc. Obsidian greatsword would do much more damage on my faith build because the claymore gets no scaling whereas the obsidian greatsword doesn't need scaling to do damage. The only down-side is the low range. Zwei is dangerous to use in PvP unless you are very good with dead angling it. Most of the time you will get roll bs'd or parried.

Obsidian greatsword has another downside: It's not fast enough to stunlock. At all. The claymore, moonlight greatsword, bastard sword, and great lord greatsword remain fast enough to stunlock with one-handed R1s.

I would also like to make a suggestion for your Dex/CMW build. With a Tin Banishment Catalyst, your dark magic would be much stronger than with Logan's Catalyst (due to the dex scaling adding to dark magic physical damage) but your CMW would be a bit weaker.
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby PsYk1K » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:18 am

On your dex dmb build have you ever thought of being a kinda sorta hybrid with pyro? Could you lose some vit and maybe some end for 45 dex and some attunements? WotG... backstab.... kick.....combustion
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Oroboro » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:23 am

Tsmp wrote:
Oroboro wrote:Str at 16 is never bad on any build, alot of things use it like claymores, uchis, and etc. Obsidian greatsword would do much more damage on my faith build because the claymore gets no scaling whereas the obsidian greatsword doesn't need scaling to do damage. The only down-side is the low range. Zwei is dangerous to use in PvP unless you are very good with dead angling it. Most of the time you will get roll bs'd or parried.

Obsidian greatsword has another downside: It's not fast enough to stunlock. At all. The claymore, moonlight greatsword, bastard sword, and great lord greatsword remain fast enough to stunlock with one-handed R1s.

I would also like to make a suggestion for your Dex/CMW build. With a Tin Banishment Catalyst, your dark magic would be much stronger than with Logan's Catalyst (due to the dex scaling adding to dark magic physical damage) but your CMW would be a bit weaker.


With any greatsword moveset I usually only use the 2h moveset so I didn't even notice it didn't stunlock with the 1h. But the way I combo with it works everytime (2h running r1-r1) into an attempted r2.

And on the dex/cmw build that is really awesome, I'll add that to the recommended item list. Never noticed that before.

PsYk1K wrote:On your dex dmb build have you ever thought of being a kinda sorta hybrid with pyro? Could you lose some vit and maybe some end for 45 dex and some attunements? WotG... backstab.... kick.....combustion


I think you would lose a little too much and might as well stick with dex/pyro but you could try it. Again most of the time I use the falchion so kicks and pyros aren't really an option.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Aafai » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:03 am

Hi Oroboro,

For your Dragonslayer build, if you do not mind not having WoG, you can go this route:

SL120: 50 VIT / 10 ATT / 40 END / 27 STR / 40 DEX / 16 FTH
Spells: Replensihment

You can even go 21 Faith if you want to go SL125. From my testing, out of all the little variations I have done in the past (pre-patch vs. Full Giant + MOM), the DSS deals the most damage if you go Q splash Faith. I tried other combinations like 24/31/28 and 24/24/35, but 27/40/16 won out every single time. It actually makes sense because the large majority of the damage comes from the physical attack, not the lightning attack. Just food for thought. This dragon slayer build of mine actually runs double time as my Q build.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Tsmp » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:38 am

Aafai wrote:Hi Oroboro,

For your Dragonslayer build, if you do not mind not having WoG, you can go this route:

SL120: 50 VIT / 10 ATT / 40 END / 27 STR / 40 DEX / 16 FTH
Spells: Replensihment

You can even go 21 Faith if you want to go SL125. From my testing, out of all the little variations I have done in the past (pre-patch vs. Full Giant + MOM), the DSS deals the most damage if you go Q splash Faith. I tried other combinations like 24/31/28 and 24/24/35, but 27/40/16 won out every single time. It actually makes sense because the large majority of the damage comes from the physical attack, not the lightning attack. Just food for thought. This dragon slayer build of mine actually runs double time as my Q build.

The problem with those stats is the demon's spear would be more powerful, so the build wouldn't be optimal. In order for the dragonslayer spear to out-damage the demon's spear, it needs 40 dexterity and about 30 faith.
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Aafai » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:39 pm

The take-away is that if you want to maximize the power of DSS, you have to first focus on Dexterity,then Strength, then Faith. I would go:
1. 16STR/40DEX
2. 27STR/40DEX
3. 27STR/40DEX + Splash Faith
Since Oroboro wants to maximize both VIT and END, 27STR/40DEX/16FTH would do the most damage.

I did test my build with both Demon Spear and Dragon Slayer Spear, and Demon Spear was more powerful, as expected. However, not by much. In one case, DS dealt 320 damage, while DSS dealt 306 damage. In another, DS dealt 305 damage, while DSS dealt 293. So DS deals about 5% high damage.

Other routes we could take are:

SL125: 50 VIT / 12 ATT / 35 END / 27 STR / 40 DEX / 24 FTH
Spells: Replenishment, Great Magic Barrier

SL125: 50 VIT / 12 ATT / 31 END / 27 STR / 40 DEX / 28 FTH
Spells: Replenishment, Wrath of the Gods

Edit: I messed up the damages comparisons. It is fixed now. Oops.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Tsmp » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:55 pm

Why are you going for 27 strength when the DSS has an E rank scaling in it? I'd stick with 24, then pump faith for even more damage. It's supposed to be a DSS-focused build, after all.

Although even then, a pike will still outdamage it with 24 str and 40 dex. Oh well.
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Aafai » Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:13 pm

DSS has C scaling for Strength. Since I 2H it all day, 27STR makes the most sense. The Pike +15 is generally more powerful, though has shorter range.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Oroboro » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:02 pm

Aafai wrote:Hi Oroboro,

For your Dragonslayer build, if you do not mind not having WoG, you can go this route:

SL120: 50 VIT / 10 ATT / 40 END / 27 STR / 40 DEX / 16 FTH
Spells: Replensihment

You can even go 21 Faith if you want to go SL125. From my testing, out of all the little variations I have done in the past (pre-patch vs. Full Giant + MOM), the DSS deals the most damage if you go Q splash Faith. I tried other combinations like 24/31/28 and 24/24/35, but 27/40/16 won out every single time. It actually makes sense because the large majority of the damage comes from the physical attack, not the lightning attack. Just food for thought. This dragon slayer build of mine actually runs double time as my Q build.


With your build, you are wasting points not getting WoG since both DEX and FAI scale the exact same (B) on the Dragon Slayer Spear. Both variations do the same amount of damage, I assure you.

Even with the Dragon Slayer Spear scaling on STR being C, the minimum you'd ever want is 24 unless you have absolutely every other stat you need. The damage boost it gives going to 27 is absolutely worthless, even when 2h.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Aafai » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:40 pm

While both DEX and Faith both have B scaling, the base attack for the lightning attack is low, starting at 97 attack power. This is why it is more important to scale your DEX, because it has B scaling at has a higher base physical attack power, starting at 142 attack. However, since you do want WoG, and max VIT and END, your current variation is optimal. Well, 30DEX/28FTH would have been more optimal. Faith also affects the lightning attack, which may be important if you use it. Remember, AR doesn't matter. What matters is how the damage is split. I would gladly take 300 physcial / 100 elemental over 200 physical / 200 elemental any day, even though both have a combined AR of 400.
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby PsYk1K » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:42 pm

I think pyro would be the most fun out of any build... they play more like a zoner in he first place so maybe with a poke weapon like an estoc it could be deadly IMO especially with the fact that you force your opponent into aggression if you're good enough at hip firing your...well...fire. Also why dark hand on pyro build? Ya I made dex/DMB but now I'm working on a secondary.... I figure the playstyle of dex/pyro differs the most from anything in the game as far as how you play and maybe even the versatility. Having fun with dex dmb btw... wish I didnt waste the 4 points into STR..... so imma only have 46 vit at 125
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby Tsmp » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:53 am

Aafai wrote:DSS has C scaling for Strength. Since I 2H it all day, 27STR makes the most sense. The Pike +15 is generally more powerful, though has shorter range.


Aafai wrote:While both DEX and Faith both have B scaling, the base attack for the lightning attack is low, starting at 97 attack power. This is why it is more important to scale your DEX, because it has B scaling at has a higher base physical attack power, starting at 142 attack. However, since you do want WoG, and max VIT and END, your current variation is optimal. Well, 30DEX/28FTH would have been more optimal. Faith also affects the lightning attack, which may be important if you use it. Remember, AR doesn't matter. What matters is how the damage is split. I would gladly take 300 physcial / 100 elemental over 200 physical / 200 elemental any day, even though both have a combined AR of 400.


Oh jeez, is it? Been a while since I actually used that thing. Look at me trying to be smart... :oops:
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Rest in pieces, Manus.

Useful notes for Dark Souls 2, by yours truly:
Magic System Guide:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=19416

Dual Wielding Power Stance how-to:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19381

Bonfire Ascetic Guide and Explanation:
viewtopic.php?f=82&t=19345&p=185263#p185263

Invading in the Dark Chasm of Old:
viewtopic.php?f=86&t=19608
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Re: Oroboro's SL 125 PvP Builds *Updated for 1.06*

Postby PsYk1K » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:21 pm

what pyromancies do you run oro??? making a pyro.. in your opinion is the pure pyro build better than the dex build with pyros?? Want to mostly play a runaway game and force my opponent to be predictable and maybe get a riposte with say a parrying dagger and bandits knife. The only difference between the 2 is switching the extra att slots for more vit... couldnt both builds play the same way and use the same items? What weapon in general do you believe to be best for these builds??? was thinking the daggers or a spear of some kind would be best for the playstyle... maybe bss or estoc? thoughts on priscillas? Also Why dark hand for ur pyro?
Last edited by PsYk1K on Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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