Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Al1000 » Sat Sep 22, 2012 5:18 am

My latest and by far greatest project is difficult to write in short. But I will try to be exact as possible as I can. There are few ways to successfully infect other worlds, but I will discuss about method I've applied during my Gravelord tour. The tour where I've infected all areas of Lordran (see videos in wiki).

1. You need a host Gravelord (for those who don’t know basics of gravelording please refer this video tutorial).
2. Victim (infected player) is human, boss in victim’s world must be defeated for single play with no incoming invasions (btw, this is the best option for mapping the black phantoms) or alive for coop play or single play with invasions.
3. And here is a key for successful infection. Victim MUST enter NG+ or higher, NG doesn’t work!!! Host plays NG or higher.
4. After you met first three requirements, you have to establish stable connection between host and victim. Victim drops red sign soapstone. Host summons and kills the victim or victim uses black separation crystal. When the victim is returning to his world, host drops an Eye of Death (EoD) immediately. Congratulation, you’ve spawned black phantoms in victim’s world.

This method is reliable (it worked 100% for me) and let you to explore infected world without time limit. But it has one side effect. Host should be a patient, use to wait and be able to defend incoming invaders. As we all know nothing in this world is 100% sure. They are many factors which might affect successful infection, such as soul level, player’s traffic, NG, etc... Soul level of the host and victim is important factor but not crucial (mine was 127, the most active one. To avoid high traffic increase your soul level above 125 or better play low soul level). Player’s traffic is vital, high traffic reduces probability to successfully infect and connect with specific victim. NG is very important, if your lobby is full of NG players your NG+ victim will be infected by host. If your lobby is filled with NG+ players forget about infection. If your lobby (victim's lobby) is filled with other NG+ players, NG+ victim in the lobby has less chance to be infected by host since other NG+ players compete with the victim for the same Gravelord (your host). I’ve tested other variations of infection with white sign soupstone, black separation crystal and all worked well in my hands. Method with WSS is especially useful for a coop play. I’ve also tested an effect of NG on infection, offline mode, internal black phantoms clock, dry fingers... All these features are welcome to know if you want to play without a host. For further information refer this video tutorial.

Techniques for getting un-gravelorded: How do I get rid of black phantoms and perma-gravelordning?
1. If you lose connection with the Gravelord servant, an invisible timer is set to ten minutes. After ten minutes pass, a "disasters are gone..." message will appear automatically and the black phantoms will disappear. Resting at a bonfire, dying or quitting/reloading the game will reset the timer, allowing the black phantoms to last indefinitely. If you reset the timer before the ten minutes pass you will get a wrong impression being permanently gravelorded for a long period.
2. If you go online, find a buddy Gravelord servant and ask him to infect you on purpose. Invade in his world, kill him, after "disasters are gone..." message will appear, black phantoms will disappear.

How successfully infect a host as a white phantom or dark spirit?
Best way to get people infected with BPs is to join their game as a white phantom or duel with them as dark spirit. Only limit: host must be NG+. Before you leave the host you have to decently ask him if he is in NG+. And if he says yes then grrrrrr.... After return as white phantom or dark spirit back in your game you just drop an EoD. The results are seen in the video

Regards,
Ribosome

SPECIAL NOTE: November the 2nd, 2012, Players can only see the black phantoms in NG+ and above. NG+ seems to be confirmed by this Miyazaki interview.
Last edited by Al1000 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:33 am, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Azurewraith » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:56 am

NIce work. Am i the only one who is annoyed that you cant get BPs un NG?
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Al1000 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:50 am

Azurewraith wrote:NIce work. Am i the only one who is annoyed that you cant get BPs un NG?

You are not the only one. Still I believe NG infection can be done but very rarely.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Azurewraith » Sun Sep 23, 2012 7:22 am

Worst part is i half read your thing saw oo a video watched that then though right im gonna GL some newbies then cried XD
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby mmghouse » Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:39 am

Nice work. It's annoying that it has to be this way, but at least gravelords can have organized fun...
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Al1000 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:34 pm

mmghouse wrote:Nice work. It's annoying that it has to be this way, but at least gravelords can have organized fun...


Tnx mmg. I hope people will test it and give response on this thread.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Sanguine_01 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:13 pm

Ive used a similar system as mentioned above especially with NG+ ive noticed i never get infected in NG, but i will drop my white sign after the initial infection eye drop in order to keep from constantly fighting invaders in my world if i get summoned. Almost always the host that summoned me to their world was one of the worlds i was gravelording. Its a funny tactic that the host has no idea the gravelord infecting his world is right along side him and if you die in his world the sign comes up about a gravelord being defeated. The pve game is a bit more satisfying when gravelording and helping especially if you have never or rarely played an infected area but i did notice that upon my return to my world my gravelord aura is gone, i wonder if this alows the infection to dissapate as well or if the other infected areas are permanently infected until the boss is dead?

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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Derdle » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:15 pm

Any other whales out there feel like making an all gravelord playthrough?
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Al1000 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:42 pm

Sanguine_01 wrote: i did notice that upon my return to my world my gravelord aura is gone, i wonder if this alows the infection to dissapate as well or if the other infected areas are permanently infected until the boss is dead?


If gravelord is summoned to victim's (or any other) world infection will not dissipate. It will last exactly 10 minutes, after that time message "Disasters are gone..." will appear. Aura is gone infection is not. Permanent infection is possible by resetting black phantoms clock with rest at bonfire or with quit/reload the game.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Al1000 » Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:43 pm

Derdle wrote:Any other whales out there feel like making an all gravelord playthrough?


We think a lot about GL run with whales but we will have only 10 minutes to play with BPs.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Derdle » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:32 pm

10 minutes seems like long enough for most levels. Reapplying the infections shouldn't be too difficult on the longer levels. This gives me a reason to get to NG+ now, I like it.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Al1000 » Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:54 am

Derdle wrote:10 minutes seems like long enough for most levels. Reapplying the infections shouldn't be too difficult on the longer levels. This gives me a reason to get to NG+ now, I like it.

I hope you are right. But don't forget, if whales have an active Gravelord, then 10 minutes restriction is off, they can whale forever with the black phantoms and experience true hard mode.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby DxV04 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:19 pm

Derdle wrote:Any other whales out there feel like making an all gravelord playthrough?

I whaled for a little bit but I have been running the Gravelord Tour of Lordran and we have decided to go to NG+ and continue. We really would like more people.
We are doing a little test this Saturday at sl +70 in NG+ in the Butterfly forest to see how this mechanic would behave in a random situation in NG+.
I hope you can consider joining.
Al1000 wrote:
Derdle wrote:10 minutes seems like long enough for most levels. Reapplying the infections shouldn't be too difficult on the longer levels. This gives me a reason to get to NG+ now, I like it.

I hope you are right. But don't forget, if whales have an active Gravelord, then 10 minutes restriction is off, they can whale forever with the black phantoms and experience true hard mode.


Ribo,

You saw in the Gravelord Tour how some of us had up to 6 GL signs on the ground, I wonder how that would affect the player and occurrence of BPs in NG+ I can't wait to try it.!

Also, you should try this with someone but beggar girl was able to make the BPs reappear by the use of a RSS or Dried Finger. We tried it several times and posted the results in this thread. I think that you might have read it already.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/608635-d ... s/63351738

But this is what I would like to test of Ribo maybe you did some test.

DarknessxVega had dropped an eye of death and started Gravelording immediately after dying, and in the brief period before I got the "Disasters are Gone" message. Using the dried finger after I walked out into the Burg from the bonfire immediately caused the Black Phantoms to come into existence. It seems the Black Phantoms operate on an invasion timer, and won't appear until it has run out or been reset.


I have seen this happen when I infected Peevee and he was recording.


Sanguine_01 wrote:The pve game is a bit more satisfying when gravelording and helping especially if you have never or rarely played an infected area but i did notice that upon my return to my world my gravelord aura is gone, i wonder if this alows the infection to dissapate as well or if the other infected areas are permanently infected until the boss is dead?

Regards,
Sanguine_01


I think what happens is that the other victims of the curse would get the 10 minute gravelord curse. I recall a test me and beggargirl did and she wondered why all of a sudden the BPs disappeared. The reason was discovered by Ribo.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Al1000 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:10 am

Ribo,

You saw in the Gravelord Tour how some of us had up to 6 GL signs on the ground, I wonder how that would affect the player and occurrence of BPs in NG+ I can't wait to try it.!

Me too. But my opinion is that high concentration of Gravelords would mess the mechanics. I don't know what to expect.

Also, you should try this with someone but beggar girl was able to make the BPs reappear by the use of a RSS or Dried Finger.


I've tested reappearance with dry fingers, but it has failed. I remember ones I used dry fingers when I was infected randomly in Parish after I've received message "Disasters are Gone...". And Black phantoms reapeared after a while. But I'm just assuming that reapearence was not due to using dry fingers but rather because I was again infected by the same Gravelord. I also tested dry fingers as a clock reset tool. But no luck. Even with a use of dry fingers, BPs died after 10 minutes.



DarknessxVega had dropped an eye of death and started Gravelording immediately after dying, and in the brief period before I got the "Disasters are Gone" message. Using the dried finger after I walked out into the Burg from the bonfire immediately caused the Black Phantoms to come into existence. It seems the Black Phantoms operate on an invasion timer, and won't appear until it has run out or been reset.

As I said before, dry fingers didn't work in my experiment. I said above, black phantoms probably reapeared because the same gravelord was infected her again. If the gravelord was dead and if she received a message, and after used dry fingers and spawned black phantoms then I can't find any rational answer to explain this. Or maybe different consoles dictate different Gravelord mechanics. Oooo

I have seen this happen when I infected Peevee and he was recording.

I saw that video (Hunting a Gravelord servant, right?). He was using RSS and not dry fingers. Soon after he received the message at 2:54 video is edited. So, we don't know how much time passed from message apearence to BPs reapearence. He was in the same lobby as Gravelord (you) and it is most likely that you infected him again. Also here it might be coincidence with RSS drop and apearence of black phantoms. After last message "Disasters are gone...) he should go immediately in a wood and drop RSS again. This would be a real proof that RSS works as BPs reapearence tool. As I said before dry fingers didn't work in that way. It would be great to know his NG status.

Edit: Baggergirl reported dry fingers also didn't work in her hands as BPs reappearence tool. She was able to spawn BPs with the method I suggested, meaning the NG+ is crucial.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby mmghouse » Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:02 pm

Stickied. It's useful enough and obscure enough to make sure it stays known.

Thanks Ribo.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby BertoSan » Sat Oct 13, 2012 3:27 am

The only thing I have to comment on about this is the fact that the game no longer works on the Lobby system. I see the person I want to summon as soon as they lay it, no matter where or what point we play. Even if we stop playing together for weeks...I come back and see his sign instantly. So the "waiting for the lobbies to synch up" isn't really applicable anymore...

Unless I'm the only one who has noticed this?

But thanks for the useful info!
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Al1000 » Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:39 am

BertoSan wrote:The only thing I have to comment on about this is the fact that the game no longer works on the Lobby system. I see the person I want to summon as soon as they lay it, no matter where or what point we play. Even if we stop playing together for weeks...I come back and see his sign instantly. So the "waiting for the lobbies to synch up" isn't really applicable anymore...

Unless I'm the only one who has noticed this?

But thanks for the useful info!


I haven't played DkS for a week. So i can not comment on lobby system, but still without a patch is hard to believe they changed coop system. Are you playing PC version? If you are right then host and victim will connect each other even faster, which is desirable. I am not sure how this "non lobby synch up" will have an impact on Gravelord mechanics such as infection but i will test it soon.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Al1000 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:38 pm

BertoSan wrote:The only thing I have to comment on about this is the fact that the game no longer works on the Lobby system. I see the person I want to summon as soon as they lay it, no matter where or what point we play.


I tryed to follow your observation but unfortunately the connection time between host and white/red phantom is not reduced. So I believe lobby system is still here.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Bahd_Monkey » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:47 pm

BertoSan wrote:I see the person I want to summon as soon as they lay it, no matter where or what point we play. Even if we stop playing together for weeks...

Wow you are really lucky! My experience has been the exact opposite. Someone can tell me exactly where they are going to drop their sign, we are the exact same level, both in the Sun Cov. and their sign will never show. After a few minutes they will redrop and it may take 2 or more times before I finally see their sign. Also, it may take at least 2 minutes between the time they drop their sign and it appears in my world.

My internet connection is nothing special, 8mbps down and less then 1mbps up. I don't know if internet connection speed makes a difference, but the "lobby system" is definitely still alive. I wish From would explain the details of it so we would know exactly how it works. That seems to be a reasonable and respectful way to treat their costumers.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Bahd_Monkey » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:03 pm

Al1000 wrote:
Azurewraith wrote:Am i the only one who is annoyed that you cant get BPs until NG?

You are not the only one. Still I believe NG infection can be done but very rarely.

Last night I saw my first Gravelord sign and I was only on NG. Plus, I had already defeated the boss of the area (catacombs).
I had just returned from defeating Pinwheel co-oping as a phantom, when I saw a weird white sign by the first bf. I thought it might have something to do with vagrants so I clicked on it and ended up invading a Gravelord! Of course once I found him he killed my pretty quickly! I'm not that good at pvp and certainly wasn't geared up for it.

Sure do wish there were more infections in the game. I miss all of the black world tendency events in Demon's.

I think it would be kewl if there were some covenants that were more likely to be infected by Gravelords then others. That would make for some twisted fun!
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Al1000 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:36 pm

Bahd_Monkey wrote:Last night I saw my first Gravelord sign and I was only on NG. Plus, I had already defeated the boss of the area (catacombs).

To see Gravelord sign in NG is normal, even if boss is defeated, but to see black phantoms is rare. Have you seen phantoms too in NG?
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Bahd_Monkey » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:54 pm

Al1000 wrote:
Bahd_Monkey wrote:Last night I saw my first Gravelord sign and I was only on NG. Plus, I had already defeated the boss of the area (catacombs).

To see Gravelord sign in NG is normal, even if boss is defeated, but to see black phantoms is rare. Have you seen phabtoms too in NG?

Oh OK. No I've never seen phantoms in NG. I've had countless "Disasters are gone..." messages on NG but never ever a phantom :(
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Al1000 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:57 pm

I'm very happy that Miyazaki confirmed my hypothesis that players can only see the black phantoms in NG+ and above. More in this Miyazaki interview.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby malcolmfavela » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:02 am

I tried to read all the info in your post so i may have missed the answer to my question, but the question i have is if i cracked orb some1 or if im invaded then gravelord will the infection work the same as red and white sign infections.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Al1000 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:51 am

malcolmfavela wrote:I tried to read all the info in your post so i may have missed the answer to my question, but the question i have is if i cracked orb some1 or if im invaded then gravelord will the infection work the same as red and white sign infections.

I dont really understand what your question is. What are red and white sign infections? RSS and WSS are used as a tool to connect host (Gravelord) and a victim (infected player). Sure, you can invade via cracked orb in host world and wait to be infected by this host Gravelord, but it is much easier to work via RSS and WSS.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby malcolmfavela » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:50 am

Retaliation is the reasoning behind my question. You have said that the red and white soap stone (i understand use of these two TOOLS) infections are 100% effective in creating black phantom infections, this is why i would like to know if i invade (cracked red orb) or if i help (white soap stone) some one, and i do not like the way i was killed or received a cry baby message for killing them or not helping them will the infection target said targets, also if i am invaded randomly by red or blue phantom will the infection target the invader. TY
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby malcolmfavela » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:45 pm

malcolmfavela wrote:Retaliation is the reasoning behind my question. You have said that the red and white soap stone (i understand use of these two TOOLS) infections are 100% effective in creating black phantom infections, this is why i would like to know if i invade (cracked red orb) or if i help (white soap stone) some one, and i do not like the way i was killed or received a cry baby message for killing them or not helping them will the infection target said targets, also if i am invaded randomly by red or blue phantom will the infection target the invader. TY

I apologise for the tone of my message and relise you probably have not been able to research this but i realy like the gravelord covenant idea. im only human and a bit scatter brained, not having better access to the internet is frustrating.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Al1000 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:07 am

malcolmfavela wrote:Retaliation is the reasoning behind my question. You have said that the red and white soap stone (i understand use of these two TOOLS) infections are 100% effective in creating black phantom infections, this is why i would like to know if i invade (cracked red orb) or if i help (white soap stone) some one, and i do not like the way i was killed or received a cry baby message for killing them or not helping them will the infection target said targets, also if i am invaded randomly by red or blue phantom will the infection target the invader. TY

OK, I did this with cracked red orb/red orb and it worked. As long as a host and a victim are in the same lobby and players are NG+ you will get successful infection and retaliation. 1) You invade someone who is in a Gravelord covenant (host) as a DW, DM or cracked red orb invader (must be NG+ player), he kills you and puts EoD immediately after you die, yes, you (invader) will get infection and BPs appearance. Invaded player (host) will get sweet revenge with spawning BPs in your world. 2) I've never tried this second option but I believe it would work. So, if you kill the invaded player as cracked red orb invader you can infect his world after if you are in the Gravelord covenant (and your area boss must be alive) and he is a NG+ player (if both players stay in the same lobby after invaded player dies). Probably you can infect also a NG+ player who summoned you and sent you back in your world but this would be wickedly beautiful.
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby malcolmfavela » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:44 am

Thank you, you have accomplished a task worthy of your own sun. Praise the sun. Praise to you. :lol:
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Re: Gravelord Mechanics: Method to spawn Black Phantoms

Postby Al1000 » Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:35 am

OP update: I've tested if white phantoms or dark spirits can infect a host (see video). It can be done. Now white phantoms and dark spirits have plenty opportunity to get revange against a host. Read OP: How successfully infect a host as a white phantom or dark spirit?
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