A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

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A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby Stooge » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:00 am

All,

I write to you today in hopes that I can convince you to sign a petition against two upcoming United States legislation known as SOPA and PIPA. These laws, which are designed to prevent online piracy, would throw a serious amount of cold water on the freedoms we all enjoy on the internet. These laws pose a threat to this community because, as the sole income provider for my family, I cannot -- and will not -- risk the liability that these laws would place upon me personally for any actions of any member on the forums or the wiki. If any of the users, regular new or old time users, were to utilize my services in a manner designed to illegal trade in copyrighted materials, regardless of whether I was aware of the activity or not, I can be personally held liable. That is simply something I am not willing to risk. Even if the users did not openly post in the forums, but instead utilized the private messaging system to trade in links to sites where illegal copyrighted materials are maintained there is still the chance that the owners of that copyrighted materials could hold me liable for the activity going on here. I simply cannot spend the time and resources to monitor user activity to that degree and would, in all likelihood, shut down the forums until such time that I can ascertain whether my personal livelihood would be in jeopardy, and/or, until the US Courts intervene and -- I pray -- strike these stupid laws down should congress be stupid enough to pass them, and should our President be short sighted enough to sign the laws if congress does pass them.

I beg each of you to not only sign the petition but to pass the information about these two laws to everyone you know. Post links to the petition on your facebook, google+, twitter pages, etc. Post it on forums, shout it from the rooftops, do whatever you feel you must to stop this insanity before it takes root and destroys the very fabric of freedom that I so love about my country. Even if you do not live in America, pass the word on and urge your leaders to step in and try and talk since into the leaders of my country. If enough voices, from around the globe, speak up at once, even Congress will shut up and listen. Call your local congressional representative. Write and mail (yes, mail a real letter) to them. Write to the White House. Email them as well. Have your parents do the same. Speak up before they silence us.

For information on your local congressional representatives go to the Wikipedia Congressional Lookup page and enter your zip code.

To paraphrase Martin Niemöller famous "First they came" statement:

First they came for the software pirates, and I did not speak out for I was not a software pirate.
Then they came for the internet whistle blowers, and I did not speak out for I was not an internet whistle blower.
Then they came for the bloggers, and I did not speak out for I was not a blogger.
Then they came for me, and there was no one left to speak out for me.


Let's not let it come to this ... Please. Speak up now, while there are millions of us who can still do so.




Sincerely,



Wayne Gibson
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby jake101 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:45 am

I think your being a little over dramtic but hey, i loves me some fear mongering. president isnt going to sign it anyway. even though he should cause its not about just piracy, its also about our national security as well.
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby d0cHollington » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:51 am

This isn't the first time that the US Congress had tried to pass something like SOPA. This is a bad thing for free speach and freedom of information. These are things that the internet was made for and the need to police it is a huge step backwards.

Just think about it like this. You can't go anywhere that will have copywritten materials so forget about YouTube, Music sites, image hosting sites, News web sites, and like stooge said this site. Why this site? look at the videos we post they all have copy written music in them, that is cause for this site to be shut down under the SOPA.

Now I'm Canadian and I know that this isn't directly effecting me...YET. If this passes in the US then Canada will be pressured into following suit as will all American allies.

Information wants to be free, keep it that way!

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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby Vumsy » Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:54 am

I don't live in the states, so there's not much for me to do...

BUT I can offer links to a few videos containing a fat, smug, smart-ass (read: genious) telling and explaining about his concerns regarding this.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... A-and-SOPA
(a little outdated since a few of the mentioned companies has changed their mind)
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/ ... A-Approved
(a fictional vid of what happens when SOPA is approved)

Anyhows, it means that this forum shuts down, and youtube vids of DkS will be deleted (if youtube itself doesn't get deleted)
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby MeMcDee » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:10 am

jake101 wrote:I think your being a little over dramtic but hey, i loves me some fear mongering. president isnt going to sign it anyway. even though he should cause its not about just piracy, its also about our national security as well.

No, he's not being overly dramatic. If this were to pass the President (this President) may not sign it, but it is a sign of what is possible in the future and it will open a door to another possible President to sign it.

This kind of stuff has happened before. Laws created to root out drug lords have been used to put business owners out of business when they did nothing wrong. For example, a bar owner had an employee that was acting as a bookie without the bar owner's knowledge. The bar was shut down and the bar owner faced legal charges even though he had no knowledge of what his employee was doing.

Website owners do put themselves at risk and are expected to do something super-human in this legislation. One mis-step and they could face legal charges with extremely high financial risks.

And, don't for one minute think this can't happen. There's one major piece of legislation that exists today that impacted me very negatively and it ends with the word Act. It scared the **** out of me and all I did was make a payment on my credit card. My use of the card was suspended for 6 months and I was being investigated for money laundering. For making a payment on my credit card-a card I have had for over 30 years.

Fear mongering is pulling out the national security trump card every time someone wants to pass some legislation-especially legislation trying to get us to willingly give up some of our freedom.

I signed this petition.
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby ToolsIdol » Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:52 am

Stooge wrote:I write to you today in hopes that I can convince you to sign a petition against two upcoming United States legislation known as SOPA and PIPA.


Done. NO way I'm letting those idiots in Congress take away my favorite website.
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby The Onceler » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:01 pm

I don't normally weigh in on political discussions but I have been reading a lot about this lately and have to agree with Stooge. While I do not agree with online piracy, the manner in which the US government is attempting to combat this is detrimental to the technological society in which we now live. Youtube, Pandora, and your favorite internet sites (like this one) will cease to exist because the owners won't be subject to crap lawsuits as a result of this shitty legislation. They are trying to hold the website owners accoutable for the deeds of its users the same way they hold property owners accountable for their tenants. I am referring to the loophole in which the government can permanently seize the property in which an illegal drug transaction may have taken place regardless of whether the property owner was aware of the illegal activity. Plenty of parents have lost their homes as a result of that piece of crap legislation, due to things that their kids have done unbenouced to them. Let's face it, we live in a crappy litigious society in which lawyers (most of our politicians are lawyers btw) control everything. Hell, when people can sue (and win) lawsuits in which they receive millions of dollars for spilling hot coffee on themselves, what website owner is going to subjest themselves to that sort of danger.

The technology sector recognizes the dangers involved with this legislation and has supported the movement against it. Not supporting it (i.e signing a petition or contacting your local representative) does not mean that you support online piracy. It means that you don't support the rushed piece of shit legislation that is being railroaded through the legislative branches of congress.

As it stands right now, if these two measures were to pass their current state, the internet would become nothing more than an e-mail tool with sales website access. Big business and government would control (by default) everything in the internet and all these cool little sites and most of the cool big ones (like youtube and wikipedia) would go dark almost instantly. In short, Stooge is not being overly dramatic as this is a serious issue that is going to be a re-occuring problem. I can't think of too many things that governments (any government not just USA) run well right now, and the internet will be a disaster for them and us. If people at the grass-roots level are too lazy to speak up to the levels of government that will hear them (local levels whose jobs are at risk if they don't listen to the masses) so that the message gets passed up the chain then we will all deal with the consequences.
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby ToolsIdol » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:09 pm

The Onceler wrote:Let's face it, we live in a crappy litigious society in which lawyers (most of our politicians are lawyers btw) control everything. Hell, when people can sue (and win) lawsuits in which they receive millions of dollars for spilling hot coffee on themselves, what website owner is going to subjest themselves to that sort of danger.


While I agree with most of ur post, the above is NOT a good analogy. I encourage u (and others) to watch THIS HBO documentary, which aired last year.
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby iGBx » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:19 pm

I tried to sign but I don't have a zip code, and it will not accept my post code.
:(
Good luck America ! :|
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby Giga vet1 » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:39 pm

I can't sign, but i've sent the link out to the americans I know WILL sign it, so i've done a bit. good luck.
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby The Onceler » Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:47 pm

ToolsIdol wrote:
The Onceler wrote:Let's face it, we live in a crappy litigious society in which lawyers (most of our politicians are lawyers btw) control everything. Hell, when people can sue (and win) lawsuits in which they receive millions of dollars for spilling hot coffee on themselves, what website owner is going to subjest themselves to that sort of danger.


While I agree with most of ur post, the above is NOT a good analogy. I encourage u (and others) to watch THIS HBO documentary, which aired last year.


I have seen it. It was not an analogy I was using, it was an example of what "could happen". I also don't believe that HBO presented all the facts of tort reform accurately. Unfortunately, it is cases like this that throw fear of frivolous lawsuits into society. I work in healthcare and am the first to admit that tort reform should be targeted here first, but it is unlikely to happen for various reasons (no way I am addressing this huge issue in text lol). I am not going to extend this discussion beyond this post because it is immense and deeply rooted in governmental function (or lack thereof), but there are major problems with this legislation and I agree that it should not be supported.
Last edited by The Onceler on Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby mmghouse » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:20 pm

Tort reform concerns to one side (as a general rule, the cost of any accident should go to where the cost-benefit analysis suggests it should - where is it "cheapest" to control said cost), the problem with the proposed laws is that it helps deprive people of the one tool that the internet gave people that businesses and governments have been grinding their teeth about ever since - the power to distribute useful information to millions of people at almost no cost. It is a powerful tool, and I'd say one of the few things helping us retain some semblance of a democracy. Let's not piss it away to protect companies who honestly have managed to handle the most egregious piracy with relatively inexpensive technology and will continue to improve on it. (By the way, cost-benefit analysis would suggest that businesses should foot the bill for piracy protection anyway :)).
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby The Onceler » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:46 pm

mmghouse wrote:(By the way, cost-benefit analysis would suggest that businesses should foot the bill for piracy protection anyway :)).


Agreed :D :gp: "opportunity cost" is basic foundation for Economics 101. :D
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby Gorbad » Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:41 pm

Posted the petition in the bethesda forums discussing this, as I can't sign that myself. Some said 2012 is the end of the world... others say that's rubbish... Little did either of them know...
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby MeMcDee » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:17 pm

The problem with any supposedly well-meaning piece of legislation is that it is often used for other purposes than what it was originally intended to combat. Those that enforce such "laws" are almost required to provide results, any results. So, if a law is aimed at a drug lord, it may well be used against "small fish" or people not intending to break the law at all. The same with any gut reaction legislation enacted. It's far easier to go after littler offenders than to get to the big ones and that pads the results. Makes the law look like it's working. And often such laws go against what we as Americans and people all over hold dear, our freedoms. Legislators use our fears to make us give up willingly what we would never let any outside force take.

The internet is one of the biggest areas where freedom of speech is really not hampered. I think that irks some people.
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby LankyChew » Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:36 pm

Read through a number of articles on the bills and at the very least the lawmakers need to take more time with anti piracy legislation befroe voting it into law. I took a few minutes out of the day to send an email to the Senators for my state and my Representative asking that they not act to pass either bill. It's as easy as posting in this forum and it's a worthwhile thing to do if you are a US citizen. Let the folks in congress know what you think.
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby Drahcir » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:13 pm

I would like to sign but I don't think my signature means much being a minor and all :(
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby d0cHollington » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:20 pm

Drahcir wrote:I would like to sign but I don't think my signature means much being a minor and all :(


Do it anyways every signature matters!
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby John-Of-Byffe » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:29 pm

Trust America to try and f**k things up for the whole planet...some things never change....good luck with the petition, guys!!
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby Drahcir » Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:31 pm

Ok I signed it :D

Your message contains 19 characters. Dang it,so close.
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby MeMcDee » Thu Jan 19, 2012 12:40 pm

Interesting turn of events. House members that originally co-sponsored this legislation are backing away from it, saying they no longer support it, as are others that previously were for it. The power of Wikipedia and Google at work. As well as the power of the little people.

I have no problem with them finding actual ways to stop the assault/hacking that is happening and there's a real worry about what China is doing-they've launched a wholesale attack on the internet. Most of the spambots and phishing emails and all lately are from Chinese addresses. But, we all know they don't know how to stop this.

And much of the problem with the legislation being considered is that it is primarily for the protection of huge companies from plagiarism and piracy and not for security reasons. The problem is, you can be breaking the Copyright law merely by quoting another copyrighted work if you do not cite the origination of your quote-and more than 3 words in a row that are the same as a copyrighted work with no credit given to the original author can be considered plagiarism depending on the context.

I own an ereader and much of what you can do with ebooks that you buy is already severely inpaired due to the way big publishers consider your purchase. It's not like a hard copy book that you can give away when done. They refuse to allow Fair Use allowed in Copyright law to be applied to ebooks. They use DRM to limit your own use of the book, but really only encourage piracy or DRM breaking. Publishers are just one type of business these laws are designed to help. They are typically very paranoid and want to squeeze every penny out of a book, and part of the legislation is meant to help them do that. Big publishers also wish to limit what you can do with a hard copy book when you are done with it. This is the kind of idiocy behind this garbage, not security.
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Re: A grave threat to our community. PLEASE READ.

Postby Ryliciouss » Thu Jan 19, 2012 2:00 pm

Signed! Thanks for spreading the news stooge!
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