Terminology Page question.

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Terminology Page question.

Postby Jman1988 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:30 pm

I was going to ask this around a week ago or so, but things got in the way, and I was sidetracked until now.

I made an edit to the Terminology page a week ago, adding around a dozen or so terms, and I alphabetized all the acronyms (I will likely alphabetize all the terms later). I would have added much more, but I wanted to see the community's opinion on doing so. Should I add a large amount of terminology to the page, or should the page only contain a few (around twenty or thirty) fundamental terms?

The pro of adding many more terms would be... pretty obvious, really. There's no need to explain.

The con of adding many more terms would be clutter.

I was indeed thinking of adding many many more terms (mostly acronyms), but the only terms I am sure to add are ones that are effectively official, and not ambiguous. An example would be things like DGA (which I already added) and MotM/MoM.

http://darksouls.wikidot.com/terminology
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Re: Terminology Page question.

Postby Vumsy » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:52 am

I'd say go nuts, but if you want to avoid clutter...

Terms:
A

Aggro - The state or condition of a character who is aggressive towards the player. Many enemies and NPC's could turn aggro if the player attacks or gets within near distance of the target.
C
Caster - Descriptor for a player who relies on spells for combat, typically has sacrificed HP and defense for high Intelligence and Attunement. Does well in ranged combat but can do well in close quarters given the proper spells.

etc.

Acronyms:
B

BKGA - Stands for the weapon: Black Knight Greataxe
BSS - Stands for Balder Side Sword, also known as the "Baller Swag Sword"
C
CMW - Stands for the magic spell: Crystal Magic Weapon
CSS - Stands for the magic spell: Crystal Soul Spear

it's a pain in the a**, but since it's the arrangement of common dictionaries, it becomes easier for the reader to relate to and find what the reader is looking for.

this is just a suggestion if clutter is the problem.
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Re: Terminology Page question.

Postby mmghouse » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:17 am

Control-F solves all problems related to clutter.
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Re: Terminology Page question.

Postby The_DAO » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:38 am

I was just about to say that. For as long as 'everything' is on one page, everything should be easily located through Ctrl-F (search for a string on the page).

This is a good resource. I get mental blocks from time to time on some of the abbreviations while reading these threads.
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Re: Terminology Page question.

Postby Jman1988 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:29 am

Okay, so it looks like there's no objection to adding more terms.

So, I already gave an example of stuff I'll definitely be adding (unambiguous official terms). Here's some examples of things I would not add:

BK for Bandit's Knife. While those are the initials for Bandit's Knife, they are also the initials for Butcher's Knife, which could potentially lead to confusion.

FS for Fire Surge. FS is most commonly used for Fire Surge, but those are also the initials of Fire Storm.

There's more ambiguous terms like those two examples I will not add. I am on the fence, however, about terms that are unambiguous, but also not well known or official (or at least de facto). An example would be VT for Velka's Talisman. Is that something that should go in the Terminology page? My thoughts are that the community would (I'm being REALLY relative here) benefit from the usage and spread of the term, since the community ends up using a number of non-standardized abbreviations for Velka's Talisman, but I don't want to taint the page with a personal agenda, or anything like that. I default to inaction on this matter, in the absence of a consensus to add these kinds of terms.
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Re: Terminology Page question.

Postby Jman1988 » Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:58 pm

Hmm. I think I will add ambiguous terms (well, I kinda already have added some), but explain what they mean. Examples are SKS, BKS, GC, and so on.

There a lot of ambiguous terms in this game. It probably won't happen, but we need to start using terminology that helps disambiguate these things. I've been using terms like this for a while, and they work pretty well. Examples include GShOA (to differentiate the Greatshield of Artorias from the greatswords), SKSp and SKSh (to differentiate the Silver Knight Spear and shield), and so on.
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Re: Terminology Page question.

Postby Jman1988 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:34 pm

Oo, I think I just thought of some stuff that we (or just I, really) should REALLY start using as terminology.

I have gone forward in the last couple of months, using some terms I made up for some of the catalysts, and it's been sticking. Now that my computer's working again, I'm going to go edit the page with these terms.

Scat = Sorcerer's Catalyst
Icat = Izalith Catalyst
Bcat = Beatrice's Catalyst
Dcat = Demon Catalyst
Lcat = Logan's Catalyst
Mcat = Manus Catalyst
TBC = Tin Banishment Catalyst (this may have already been around, not sure)
TDC = Tin Darkmoon Catalyst (this was already established, but since it's so worthless, most people don't even know)
OIC = Oolacile Ivory Catalyst
Ocat = Oolacile Catalyst

When PTD came out, the community was at first having to go to inconvenient lengths to differentiate those last two catalysts (aka typing out their whole name), and those were what I was originally striving to differentiate. Then I checked and saw that none of the two-word catalysts shared a beginning letter, so voila! TCC and TDC (Tin Darkmoon Catalyst) are already up on the terminology page, since I've seen those terms used in the past.

I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, but after a very recent post of mine, it just hit me: "I should check the talisman names." Well, as it turns out, none of them share a beginning letter. What do you think about using these terms, and my adding them to the terminology page? I don't want to turn the page into a form of activism, and just add terms "under the pretense that we should be using them.". I want to add terms if the community finds them helpful and convenient, and if the community has already used them (like with TCC and TDC).

Ctal (the term I just used a few hours ago) = Canvas Talisman
Ttal = Thorolund Talisman
Ital = Ivory Talisman
Stal = Sunlight Talisman
Talisman = Talisman :|

I already have DMT down in terminology as meaning Darkmoon Talisman. Should it remain so? I also happen to have VT there as Velka's Talisman, since the letter "V" is seldom ever used as the beginning letter of a Dark Souls term, whereas "ST" and "TT" would be far too ambiguous of abbreviations for Sunlight Talisman and Thorolund Talisman. I like Vtal better for some reason, but there's the potential confusion with Vitality. On the OTHER HAND (I have three hands... ladies), Vitality is universally abbreviated as "Vit" in the Dark Souls community, and context should make it nigh impossible to confuse Vtal for Vitality.

"Vtal is stronger than Ctal in a Moonlight Faith build, since you've got 40 Intelligence."

Anyone have any thoughts/approval/disapproval about what I've discussed?

*edit* grammar
Last edited by Jman1988 on Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terminology Page question.

Postby DidoRumbus » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:11 am

Jman1988 wrote:TDC = Tin Darkmoon Catalyst (this was already established, but since it's so worthless, most people don't even know)

TDC is practically OP!! Ok maybe not, but it has at least one good build, made possible by Dark Bead and 16 INT / 50 FAI. (viewtopic.php?f=67&t=16206)

All good. Personally I like to see "cat" in shorthand, excepting TCC since it's pretty ubiquitous. i.e. OIcat is more obvious to me than OIC, but that'd change if you started using it. "tal" makes sense.

How about shorthand for new sorceries? I'm getting sick of writing Dark Bead, does DB contradict anything?
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Re: Terminology Page question.

Postby Jman1988 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:17 am

I checked out the link, and it looks like PTD has given a huge buff to TDC (well, up from "garbage" to "it can be threatening"). I never thought about it that way, and that seriously gives me some more appreciation for it. I would have gone with the name "Darkmoon Hybrid", to contrast with "Velka Hybrid". :P

This is just my personal approach to abbreviation: I stick with uppercase letters, and attach lowercase letters to uppercase ones to disambiguate from other things that could share initials with the term. Examples are SKSp, SKSh, GShOA, Gclub (GC usually means Great Combustion), Lclub (LC could possibly mean Light Crossbow), Gscythe (GS usually means greatsword), and more. If the term is effectively interpreted with just initials though, then I leave it at that, instead of adding letters for vanity's sake. Trust me, I like the look Gcomb for Great Combustion better, but since GC is already used to mean that, it's the most effective.

DB looks like it SHOULD share initials with something. It's just so... I don't know the word for it. But I can't think of anything, and even if there was something, it's such a rarely used terminology, Dark Bead could rightfully shortened to DB, like how Great Combustion took GC, even though it shared initials with the most important STR weapon after BKGA.
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