BBS with heavy armor

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BBS with heavy armor

Postby SS2 Vegeto » Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:10 am

Way back when I made my first character in Demon's Souls, I used ggdoom's Blueblood Sword build. I followed his stats exactly (with the exception of the one extra point I threw somewhere to hit 125), but I didn't follow his advice for armor at all and followed rule of cool instead. Here's the setup I had:

Head: Fluted Helmet
Chest: Fluted Armor
Arms: Brushwood Gauntlets/Dark Silver Manifer (switched when magic defense would be more useful than physical and fire defense and vice versa)
Legs: Dark Silver Leggings

RH1: Blueblood Sword
RH2: Talisman of God/Sticky Compound Longbow +5

LH1: Dark Silver Shield +5/Moon Uchigatana +5
LH2: Insanity Catalyst

Rings (Body Form): Ring of Great Strength, Eternal Warrior's Ring
Rings (Soul Form): Ring of Great Strength, Cling Ring

What I'm wondering now is if I should have distributed the stats any differently in light of my armor and the loss of one ring slot to wear it. For example, if 50 vitality is the recommended number for a build with lighter armor, I wonder if I should take just enough points from vitality that I have the same survivability as a build with lighter armor would, and put them elsewhere. And given my lack of access to the damage boosts from the Clever Rat's Ring, Friend's Ring, and Foe's Ring, I wonder whether I should allocate more points to luck or magic. It would take WAY, WAY too many points from other stats to get endurance high enough to free up a ring slot (even 50 END is too little), so that doesn't seem to be an option. I know that the obvious solution is "wear lighter armor", but I don't want to. >:/

What stats should I move, if any? And is this even the most effective Blueblood Sword build for my character?

EDIT: I know you can't actually "take" stats from vitality. I'm talking about modifying the build, which I'll use on a new character. I don't like how my old one's face turned out anyway.
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Re: BBS with heavy armor

Postby Oshyki » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:59 pm

Armour is merely cosmetic at slvl125. The difference in damage taken between full leather and full brushwood when struck with a +5 weapon is so small, you should never build around amour preference. Especially when building a BBS as you already have to sacrifice so much vit and end for 18/18/30/18. And sacrificing a ring slot for armour is practically masochistic. When in phantom form except when hypermoding or extremely exotic builds, you always use cling ring and friends/foes ring. Because what would you rather? Receive 5% less damage or deliver 20% more damage, bare in mind also the whole point of a BBS is damage output.
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Re: BBS with heavy armor

Postby SS2 Vegeto » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:01 am

Sorry, I should have been clearer in the OP. I understand that I'm making the build worse by using heavy armor. I did so knowing that I probably was. But for the purposes of this build, I care about the look of the character to the extent that I'm willing to make that sacrifice; my purposes ARE cosmetic. That's part of the fun of it for me. I can have other characters that are more optimized for pvp. But still, that doesn't mean that I don't care if this one is more handicapped than it HAS to be. From the sound of it, it's a question of whether hanging onto every bit of the vit that I have or having a little extra damage output is more important. For starters, ggdoom's 31 end setup would be preferable to the 35 end version here (on account of the 5 extra luck), or so I would guess.

Though I suppose I should also take into account the ability to just switch to lighter armor when need be instead of making a separate character, provided I don't alter the stats. Maybe I'll compromise and take the 31 end setup as is (unless I shouldn't?).

EDIT: It's probably also worth asking whether a luckless BBS build would be better or worse than this for me, given my choice of armor. Given my lack of access to Friend's/Foe's Ring, I'm guessing that an additional 15+% damage reduction would make it much worse (as you said, "the whole point of a BBS is damage output"), but I don't know much.
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Re: BBS with heavy armor

Postby Juli » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:02 am

You should still go with 50 vitality. You don't get 50 vitality to hit a certain point in survivability, you get 50 vitality because it has good returns up until then. No matter what armor you have, you will still get good returns from vitality until 50, so it's still worth increasing relative to other stats you might spend soul levels on. The only reason you should lower vitality below 50 is if you had to dump so many points into Endurance that you can't get decent damage out of your BBS. I don't know what your stat spread looks like, so I can't comment on that.
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Re: BBS with heavy armor

Postby Astrichthyes » Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:28 pm

given your typical BBS stats, I think a lava bow with fire arrows will work better for you than sticky CLB. you don't have a lot of dex there, so you won't be dealing a great amount of damage.

The fluted and dark silver armors are very cool, but not worth it. Perhaps you should also consider female armors such as the witch hat and parts of the rogue, black leather, and binded armors, maybe even the dull gold set. Overall, you'll cut down on weight, which is your biggest problem here. Other than that, I really don't know what to say. For EVERY build (except pure casters that use msharp), Friend/Foe ring is absolutely mandatory. Your damage output as a phantom/BP will plain stink without it. Just imagine how pathetic your unlit BBS will hit without F/F. It's already abysmal, but you might not even break 400 damage on bs. The only way your setup is even close to viable is in body form, where you do not have access to F/F.
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Re: BBS with heavy armor

Postby SS2 Vegeto » Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:34 pm

Ah, I referenced the build in the OP (3rd most popular on the wiki), but I shouldn't have assumed. There are two versions given:

Vit 50
Int 15
End 35
Str 18
Dex 18
Mag 30
Faith 18
Luck 20

and

Vit 50
Int 15
End 31
Str 18
Dex 18
Mag 30
Faith 18
Luck 25

I was referring to the second spread when I wrote:
SS2 Vegeto wrote:For starters, ggdoom's 31 end setup would be preferable to the 35 end version here (on account of the 5 extra luck), or so I would guess.

Though I suppose I should also take into account the ability to just switch to lighter armor when need be instead of making a separate character, provided I don't alter the stats. Maybe I'll compromise and take the 31 end setup as is (unless I shouldn't?).


And that option is looking more and more attractive to me, since it would mean I could just change clothes in soul form. To be honest, my first thought with this character was what I wanted him to look like, and then after the fact, how to make him suck no more than necessary. Depending on how serious I am about the pvp on any given day, I don't mind changing my clothes in soul form, though.

Once again, thanks for the advice. IIRC, the Sticky CLB still did more damage than the Lava Bow when I tested it. And it probably went without saying, but I'm using Light Weapon and Second Chance.
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Re: BBS with heavy armor

Postby Oshyki » Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:42 pm

Astrichthyes wrote:given your typical BBS stats, I think a lava bow with fire arrows will work better for you than sticky CLB. you don't have a lot of dex there, so you won't be dealing a great amount of damage.


CLB+10/white arrows. Lava bow/Fire arrow (with ability shortage) if you don't have enough dex
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Re: BBS with heavy armor

Postby Astrichthyes » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:52 pm

@SS2: did you test the lava bow with fire arrows or white? Additionally, what did you test against?

Fire arrows benefit the lava bow more than white because they increase the elemental damage and hit a generally lower def. Against something like a DBS str, your CLB will probably deal more damage because you're fighting high firedefs. If you test against a light armour build such as a pmage, your damage will be quite good with the lava bow. If you're testing against in-game enemies, your damage will not reflect what you would deal in pvp. One advantage the lava bow gives is that it will deal chip damage through the ever-common DSS, so there is that to consider as well
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Re: BBS with heavy armor

Postby SS2 Vegeto » Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:45 pm

It was a while back, but I'm pretty sure that I got similar results against several different enemies. However, I'm not as sure that I used fire arrows with the lava bow. I may have used heavy, light, or white arrows with both. I'm guessing that's the mistake. Either way, the ability to deal chip damage through DSS IS attractive.
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Re: BBS with heavy armor

Postby Astrichthyes » Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:00 pm

Graverobber Bilge sells fire arrows. Let us know if that makes a difference in your overall output. I'm curious to see your results :)
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Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
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Re: BBS with heavy armor

Postby Oshyki » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:48 am

Cool! I use to love experimenting, testing and correlating information. If you want to do that then stop posting and go do that. If you want answers then either I or another seasoned veteran will happily offer you the benefit of our wisdom if you post here. Just like this...

For minimum stats CLB+10/WhiteArrows, for high dex builds StickyCLB+5/WhiteArrows, for no dex LavaBow/FireArrows. In other words, unless you're using it with "ability shortage" the LavaBow/FireArrows is the wrong choice.

Also, to address most other common build questions such as armour as raised earlier, follow this very basic rookies guide I wrote a few years back-
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=16270

Or for anything specific, i covered most things regarding BBS builds such as luckless building in this-
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17133


If you want praise for your build, you won't find it here. Unlike Dark Souls 1&2, Demon's Souls is very basic with only 14 attack sets, and some of us have been playing a long time and have long mastered building. But, what you will find here is an answer to every possible build and PvP related question. Got one? Please fire away, geeks love to pass on their knowledge in fine detail :)
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Re: BBS with heavy armor

Postby SS2 Vegeto » Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:18 pm

No, I was just responding to a question. I'll probably test out of curiosity anyway, but it's not like I don't believe you. That's what I understood to be the case from the start. Not looking for praise either, my build is deliberately handicapped for style.

One question I do have, since Astrichthyes brought it up, is whether the larger damage output of the sticky CLB+10 or the ability to deal chip damage through DSS with the lava bow is more worth it.

Also, your BBS thread was useful.
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Re: BBS with heavy armor

Postby Astrichthyes » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:32 pm

SS2 Vegeto wrote:No, I was just responding to a question. I'll probably test out of curiosity anyway, but it's not like I don't believe you. That's what I understood to be the case from the start. Not looking for praise either, my build is deliberately handicapped for style.

One question I do have, since Astrichthyes brought it up, is whether the larger damage output of the sticky CLB+10 or the ability to deal chip damage through DSS with the lava bow is more worth it.

Also, your BBS thread was useful.


The only shield anyone uses besides DSS is adju, which has very low fireres. A pure physical bow may hit harder in general, but will have no chip damage through a shield, which is the biggest problem you face as a BBS build. Moon weapons and dragon weapons make decent backups and may be a better option for pvp
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Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: BBS with heavy armor

Postby SS2 Vegeto » Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:31 pm

I carry a moon uchi +5 as a shield sub for some weapon match-ups. I *sometimes* switch out my talisman for a bow after casting SC.
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Re: BBS with heavy armor

Postby Oshyki » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:18 am

Chip away damage through a shield? Maybe to snag the last bit of health in a honour duel, but generally someone in a random invasion is very likely to just heal up.

Did you know that you can dead-angle with an offhand uchi? The easiest way I found was to cancel target lock, R1 roll attack to their right shoulder, pivot to your right slashing with L1 aiming to just clip their left shoulder at the start of your swing releasing the right analogue stick as your attack bypasses their shield so you can follow up with a sort of "pivot-push" to lead you into a pushlock combo.
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Re: BBS with heavy armor

Postby SS2 Vegeto » Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:14 pm

I did not know that. That's really useful information, thanks.
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