Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

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Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby Astrichthyes » Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:36 pm

Another old favorite of mine. This mage hits extremely hard, with an average of 1100 on ignite and 800 on fireball with Kris blade out and msharp as your ring. That means a fireball-ignite combo can crack SC on a host with ease. It is perhaps the best way of countering DSS turtles. Without further ado, here is the build:

Sorcerer
40vit
30int
base str
base dex
50/49 mag
49/50fth
base luck

Right 1: Kris blade+5
Right 2: Crescent estoc/falchion+5 or large sword of moonlight+5
Left 1: talisman of beasts
Left 2: blessed iron knuckles+5

Armor: monk's head wrap, ancient king chest+gauntlets, venerable/Leather boots
Rings: cling+foe/friend (add 20% to spells and melee), cling+magical sharpness (adds ~30% to spells), magical sharpness+eternal warrior's (host), magical sharpness+Fr/Fo (glass cannon)
Spells: firespray/soul ray, fireball, ignite
Miracles: second chance, wrath of God

What you choose to run is ultimately up to you. I have recently taken a liking to LSoM as my weapon to deal with turtles and amp up my casting speed to its maximum. As such, my preferred spells are soul ray, fireball, and ignite. Soul ray and fireball are almost instantaneous with pivot casting and work well together if you have FB in slot 1 and ray in slot 2 (the speed change can catch your opponent off guard and the splash radius of FB can set up a follow-up pivot ray if you're close and can cast it quickly enough). This works well on any dual kat wielder thinking they can roll through or run around the expected FB and combo you. <--- happens in almost every fight I've had against dex builds. That said, soul ray often gets a direct hit bonus if you hit your opponent while they are sprinting, in a roll, or backstepping and can result in 2hko's to crack SC or can finish an opponent off after you crack their SC. The damage I saw for each spell in my fights on 1/7 against a faith build and a DBS wielder (I had LSoM out and monks head wrap and foes on) were as follows:

Soul ray ~400 regular hit, ~500-650 direct hit
Fireball ~550 against DBS, ~650 against faith
ignite ~600-650 against DBS, ~700-750 against faith

I tended not to get direct hits with either FB or Ignite, most likely because I was fighting EU players on the NA server while I am on the west coast of the US, so there was quite a bit of lag
Last edited by Astrichthyes on Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby ValkyriePROfail » Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:43 am

I made a very similar pushed ToB mage, but with 45 int/ 44 faith and 50 vit. Base end (Royalty), str and dex as well, and blucker instead of blessed knuckles(for minimal crestoc turtling and bs). Soul ray is awesome when pivot casted but I prefer the pressure that firespray into ignites gives. In soul form, 50 vit really helps with foe´s/friends ring+magical sharpness over cling ring.
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby Astrichthyes » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:07 am

My stats are primarily designed to hit as hard as possible while not getting ohko'd by any regular hit except by (possibly, hasn't been tested) a 66str purple dog bone or a lit MC. The extra power is tantalizing, but the extra hp can give you the ability to survive trading hits (especially against dex/spellswords/BBS) with the hyperarmor pivot casting can provide. It's all based on preference. In soul form, 927 hp isn't so bad because it keeps you out of regular hit ohko range by weapons such as NR, lit BBS, cursed hiltless, gaxe/gs, etc. At 525hp (50v, no cling), these weapons are likely to ohko with any hit. Just something to consider since a lot of players use these weapons. You would also be ohko'd through SC by a kat-stoc roll r1-l1-tilt r1 combo, which is a favorite of many dex players. That's just my experience. You can go for a 44/44 ToB caster at the cost of some melee and spell damage should you run cling-Fo/Fr/RoMS for some extra hp, but I find extra spell damage to be a bit better than 123 more hp because you can achieve ohko ignites with the least amount of sacrifice.
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Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby ValkyriePROfail » Wed Dec 11, 2013 5:07 am

Problem is that ignites tend to trade hits. Personally I´d go the extra hp over extra firepower (matter of preference, ofc). I don´t know whats the difference in terms of mag. adjust. between 45/44 and 50/49 but considering ToB´s C/C scaling it shouldn´t be too considerable.
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby Astrichthyes » Wed Dec 11, 2013 12:43 pm

I never ohko'd with ignite on my 44/44 without a direct hit or some residual damage first. I think my damage with 50/44 was around 900-1000 on average. Because mage gear such as the monk's head wrap, kris blade, and foe's/friend's/RoMS all boost spell damage, the scaling on the ToB is significantly amplified, so instead of getting 2 or 3 damage per point, you may be getting more than even 5 or 6, making that extra 11 points count a lot more than it would for, say, a dex build. You could still use FSpray for the residual damage, but you'll have to do more spraying to get them into the range where you can kill through SC with a FB-Ign combo. i'll do some testing with the actual damage soon. What I do know about my battles yesterday is that this mage is very competitive and doesn't mind DBS fireres if you have SRay. Versus DBS-DSS tanks, which I got to test this extensively on because of a host I met the other day, you really do need kris blade out in order to guarantee a 2hko vs a DBS phantom with FB. Then again, I fought a vit-gouged tank who probably used RoMD and RoFlameR for extra defenses against my setup. In terms of damage, you definitely need RoMS to deal that 1100 damage with ignite because it's a bit stronger than Fo/Fr. The downside is Fo/Fr increases melee damage while RoMS does not, so LSoM would be weaker, making the ring decision crucial to your playstyle and completely up to you. I've seen casters go Vit-gouge, glass cannon, and everywhere in between, so there are options.
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Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby Jumilaattori » Thu Dec 12, 2013 4:42 am

I don´t understand this at all. There´s only a handful of active players. We play without grass and without buffs and then people make these hard hitting toons and talk about 1shotting.

I fail to see where´s the fun when laggy ignite 1shots from 2 rolls away or when you get caught to run r1 or roll r1 from katanas and lose SC.

This is a build that requires your opponent to use CW. Then the duel is 2-3 hit wonder without grass.

I don´t even wanna start with fspray :(

These were all cool when the game was active and there was dozens of host worlds and jumpers and people played with 3 grass.

Why not make toons with 50-67 vit and if using spells just use tob or icat when you actually need to combo the spells and land several to win a match.

Don´t take this wrong just my 2c.
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby Astrichthyes » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:12 pm

No offense taken, jumi.

I rarely see ignite lag, so that could just be the players you are fighting (from far away, in all likelihood). If anything, fireball lags far more because of the massive splash radius. As for the damage, it really isn't that high unless you have Kris, monks head wrap, and msharp together. With foes/ friends plus LSoM out, your fireball will barely 2hko any normal phantom except perhaps vit-gouges, your ray will 3hko at best, and your ignite will 2hko any phantom. I'm not a big fan of fspray, which is why I use ray instead. It was simply an option.

There is no requirement for your opponent to use CW, as you can still be ohko'd by a dh from any large magical weapon (possibly even by a physical gaxe dh) or lose SC in a combo from smaller weapons like kats. This leaves the ohko backstabs out entirely, which includes many weapons beyond those mentioned (perhaps the only major downside to this build IMO). The only thing that makes the higher damage necessary is that you run lower hp and defenses than other builds (my makoto-faith build is the polar opposite). The FB- ignite combo probably won't ohko if you run foe/friend as your only spell damage booster, so that is always an option, but the DBS firedef boost means your fire spells will hit for 10-20% less damage against that kind of setup. About half of the players that I've met in the past week have had this weapon and, since they ohko/2hko almost anyone, the boosts are necessary unless you want to roll bs with crestoc to even up the odds. I personally prefer not to use this option because ohko bs is like a free win and a lot easier to do than land ignite.
Last edited by Astrichthyes on Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby mmghouse » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:14 pm

Valid points, but it's still fun to theorycraft and min-max for the intellectual exercise of it. Plus, every million years or so a tourney pops up.

In practical everyday gameplay settings, my fave is a Vit-DBS.
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby ValkyriePROfail » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:29 am

And glad that ignite isnt as laggy as combustions are in DkS. In fact, I´ve never found ignite laggy at all, minimal hitbox (almost body-body touch required) and when it connects its basically cause a terrible mistake.
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby bialy0021 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:55 am

is clay hitting you outside of its range laggy? is gaxe roll r1 hitting you after you rolled out laggy?
define laggy.

ignite has a pretty nice hitbox. lag (yes) combined with how the game deals with player positioning, invincibility frames and hit detection makes for a phantom ignites - just like phantom hits with clay/gaxe/fball/anything. it also has more reliable hyper than other spells (just like gaxe hyper is more reliable than dbs for example) and can trade with anything.
its not that hard to land it if you really want to.

btw. pivot casting doesnt grant hyper. some spells just have it (ignite, most projectile spells etc.).

pushed tob mage is kinda late 2010. now, cracked tob mage, thats something.
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby Jumilaattori » Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:09 am

Cheers B, I just finished my B wait till you see my awesome setup + your armor setup :D

Nothing wrong in pure mage thought. Not a build that many use and no matter what its never easy to win with it.

I guess I´m just stuck on preaching on playing with low(er) dmg setups and fooling around.
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby Astrichthyes » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:01 pm

Cracked ToB mage? How would that work if it reduces your effectiveness to almost nothing? A 50/49 ToB with no damage boosters and in host form dealt 620 damage to eagleplatinum's pmage with a FB-ign combo, which is more than a boosted spell tool you cannot wield effectively. A more interesting idea is a faith-sword with 50fth and 18mag with the ToB. Using faith weapons over crescent/moon would make for an interesting setup, although your spell damage would not be near the level of the icat ( likely equal to that of the wooden or silver catalyst with 50m). Craxe/gaxe/gs/claymore would be the best weapons, depending on your dex. Priest would probably work the best unless you want dex to use craxe. This would probably fit the low damage caster concept jumi was talking about and will probably be my next project. It would not hit as hard with melee or spells as an icat-NR caster, but would be interesting nonetheless

Edit: just did the number crunching and the faith sword requires either 45fth for minimum workable endurance and 45 vitality OR a higher SL (125-130+). This is still not going to deal as much damage or have as much stamina/hp as a spellsword.
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Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby Jumilaattori » Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:08 am

He was kidding ^^

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50v
35e
24i
18s
13d
18m
40f

fb-ignite with ks,gs lh makoto

fb-ray-poison cloud with baby´s nail in mh

int can be 15 or 18 I prefer slots over dmg and end.
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby Jumilaattori » Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:09 am

About spell dmg, like you said Astri kris and hat boost it. After 30 mag the gains are very marginal. Same for 18/40 tob and vice versa. Imo its not worthing pumping primary stat at the cost of vit.

Melee magic builds are always in disadvantage dmg wise and when you fight dss you need to land like 3 times more hits than your opponent. Doesen´t really matter if you´ve 45 or 50 mag or 40 or 50 faith. Crestoc ohko stab the only difference I think but it 1shots even with 40 mag when landing a direct stab.
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby bialy0021 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:16 pm

i was kidding, yes. kinda. partially. not really?

anyone can use spells (dat wooden cat). cracked tob works just as well if you disregard dmg and focus on combo capabilities. get str and have fun tossing fireballs into dbs roll r1 or hitstunning with ray to run r1 with ks or anything.

thats what i dont like about 'pure' mage. spells alone are not that great - thats why you dont see dual catalysts. mixing it up with melee is essential to make the most out of them imo. thing is, mixing it up with melee equals crestoc runstab or dbs roll r1 for most.
another reason is that it usually makes up for any shortcomings with the dmg. not that other common builds are any different, but there you have it.


ive been using different variations of what jumi posted. 15/18/24int, 30/32/38end, 18/26str, multiple different pts distribution in mag/fth.
eventually i settled for:

45/18/38/26/13/18/40/7 with blessed ks/gs; tob/mako or dss

but i rarely keep it at 125 (vading yo). like jumi said, 30fth or 40fth doesnt make much difference anyway.

its all about 'combos' for me. not in the sense of pushlock/stunlock (although short stunlock or plock are often a part of a larger combo). theyre all easily escapable but that makes it more fun. killing someone in 1 fluid combo consisting of both melee and spells, considering dmg like this, is the best thing one can get in ds.
i find it amusing that 1hko ignite can be fun for anyone after 3 years of pvp. dont get me wrong, i do like high dmg builds (from time to time) and dont really have anything against em. just think that it takes away from the game or at least the 'skill' part of it. winning is already easy as it is.
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby Zubroska40 » Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:29 pm

Hey guys.

Well Bialy.You re maybe the only one who knows how cancel the recovery time after the cast, especially to do your run R1 2 handed (yes 2 handed!) with your nasty KS. :theman:

You are the one who use a quality build (with 6 magic) with fire ball and soul ray isn't it?

We dont have your polish glitched controller m8! :P
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby bialy0021 » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:47 pm

anyone can do, not a select few.
one just needs to try, practice and not sigh.

drago, the belgian pivot that got us all hoping, does it all the time. without any moping.

but yes, the modded pra0 controller with instawin helps.
i use only this one - other are for whelps.

get it nao and ascend to the new level of pra0!
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby Astrichthyes » Sun Dec 29, 2013 11:29 pm

I've been playing this build for a while, so I've had the chance to test the damage with LSoM + foe's/friend's ring pivot casting. Under neutral WT, FB-Ignite will crack SC unless your opponent is a vit-gouged DBS wielder. Soul ray hits for 400-500 damage against a non-DSS DBS wielder. LSoM hits 300-350 on normal hits, so your damage isn't so bad that you won't pose a threat against turtles. In general, you'll perform best with this build if you keep your opponent guessing. Switching frequently between ray and FB pivot casts can catch your opponent off guard if they don't adjust their timing accordingly. When you run low on stamina from dodging, you can still pivot cast a fireball behind you and can catch your opponent in an attempted backstab or roll r1. Soul ray also works for this, although there is no splash damage to protect you like FB will.

With regard to cracked ToB casting, you'd probably be better off casting with a wooden catalyst so you don't have the damage reduction from stat reqs. The ToB can stand in for the option, but becomes less useful if you're allowed to switch. Silver catalyst will also work and gives you additional casts at the cost of barely any damage. Just a thought.
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Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby eagleplatinum » Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:34 pm

I love this build and even thoug hi usually opt for the basic 40/40/8/9/12/44/45/*, i rarely, if ever, use flame toss, so i'd be happily inclined to drop 10 from int to add the bonus to mag/fai. I think i will do this now.
Also ast, im looking for your spell Gaxe build because that's another of my favorites, and i made one on my own but i bet our stats differ slightly as mine was 40/18/40/26/14 (why did i do 14 dex?) /44/16/7. Im gonna browse around for yours if it is here but if it isn't could you message me on psn or here to give me your stats for it please? Thanks ast! Hope you're doing okay and i miss ya!
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby Astrichthyes » Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:45 pm

PM'd you everything you need. It was nice playing with you today. Lately, I haven't had a lot of time to play because of everything going on in my life at the moment, but I hope i'm able to play a bit more in the coming weeks. I hope all is well for you outside of the gaming world as well.

With regard to the build, I always go 30i because I think 200mp and 5 slots is plenty to work with, especially since the only TRULY competitive spells in the game are fspray, soul ray, fireball, and ignite, although spray is not at all necessary. I cannot say how significant the difference in damage is in real application because it varies so much from foe to foe, but spice is relatively easy to use if you keep track of your opponent's relative stamina and know whether anything in their moveset will be able to hit you before you are able to roll. Sometimes, a player will recklessly try to hit you while you spice, run out of stamina, and will be left wide open for bs, so timing is crucial. One thing I forgot to say about the damage is that a 45/44 ToB will not outdamage a 50m icat. It's not that significant, in all honesty, except with regard to damage breakpoints like 2hko FB.
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Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby Zubroska40 » Tue Jan 14, 2014 4:56 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE88vRhOhro


Look at yourself with your mage Ast :p
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Re: Astrichthyes' Pure Mage sl125

Postby Astrichthyes » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:31 pm

Good video, zubi. Thanks for posting it
Join me or face the wrath of babies.

Demon's Souls: SL 125 Pushed ToB Mage, Spellgaxe, Mak-faith, DBS Mage; lost my saves a while back, so this is all I have
Dark Souls: Sold it. Had SL 125 PGS-fth, Pure Mage, and Murak-pyro
Dark Souls 2: SL300 str-fth; SL 150 str. Completely bored of this game, ready to sell it
Bloodborne: SL 100 Pure Str Logwheel, SL 100 Str-Arc split Logwheel, SL100 Pure Arcane Logwheel
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